george trotter

Hi Max, You have a WWII showato signed bt Niwa Kunihide. SEKI JU NIWA KUNIHIDE He began at Seki on 12 March 1941 Regards,

DANG....I meant to say not IJA but instead I wrote IJN....sorry. No, that guy IS in the IJN.

I just had a scan through this post on longer than usual gunto and OA mounts and (I think) the focus has been Type 94/98 blades/.mounts....I put one back there too of my longest RJT blade of 27 7/16" or 69.8 cm in a Type 98 (OA 1 metre - 39.5 inches) . Just to mention that the RS can be quite long also here is a blade by RJT smith Masakazu (private order/no star) made 17/4. The OA is 1.040 cm (40 in) and blade is 69.5 cm (27 3/8 in). This is not too heavy - scabbard is lacquered wood, quite light...this is the longest RS blade and mount I have seen....must be longer ones out there? Regards, Edit to add an hour later: Just happened to be looking at the book YASUKUNI TO p.72, and it mentions (c.1937?) that the "military authorities issued a request to the (Yasukuni) Foundation to reduce the weight of the Yasukuni-to, as the earlier swords proved too heavy a burden for soldiers on a long march". Wonder why the top end of the RJT weights and lengths was greater than the Yasukuni scheme, even though the Yasukuni had already had requests to lighten its blades....? Just thought I'd mention it.

Marc, his arm patch is crossed anchors....not IJN.

In my youth I went to Finland a few times Jussi....I remember with a smile the friendly "Finska Flikka" (excuse my Swedish - I don't understand Finnish). Skol!

basically ichi-mai?

Thomas, Geraint, Jacques and all others who commented...thank you. Yes, I agree that it is too difficult to be too precise. Obviously this is why the Japanese experts and texts leave a bit of "leeway" in their interpretations. I will (actually already have) follow your recommendation to stick to the Tokuno position as (as you say) he is specifically discussing the features of this connected line of smiths. So, I will leave it as 'sunagashi' and not take up too much space discussing the "other possibilities" like inazuma, Imozuru etc, etc. Your description is short, relevant covers the situation and explains it all well....so thanks Thank you all for taking the time to assist in this matter. Love the NMB. Regards, Edit to add ... An hour has passed...I've just adjusted my file text...all simple and clear now. I'm smiling. Thanks guys.

Yes Marc, can't see a sho or seki stamp, but that writing looks like the hurried work of a na-kiri-shi (name-cutting-person), so no. not a gendaito...a signed in a hurry showato, as so many were. Regards,

hard to read...might be wrong but looks like Noshu Ju Hattori Masahiro saku Slough p.99.

Wow, never occurred to me before that a owners name or his mon name was written on the tsuka end. Amazing! Can anyone read these tsuka names for me? Love to know if these two of mine are the owners name or his mon name? First is numbered 2 and has a name or mon name? Second is numbered 199 and has a name (Ojima)? or mon name? Thanks... Edit to add ....just remembered that this second tsuka with OJIMA / OSHIMA / or? written on it cannot be the owner of this sword because the real owner's name and rank were written on the blade with a fountain pen by an Aussie when he got the sword....it is 2nd Lt Kume...so not OJIMA or OSHIMA or ?...not sure why a name is written there, maybe the shop guy himself?. Hope the other number one pans out to make some sense...

Bruce, just referring back to my Feb 15 RS numbered parts photos of sword by Masakazu of Fukushima Apr 1942 no star. I said all parts were marked ni 1129 even the wood and showed a pic of it (but it was upside down and hard to read) - here it is right side up and you can see the wood is marked ni 1129 - but in kana and kanji (only part not numbered in romaji numbers). Reading R/side first NI, L/side top to bot: 1, 1, 11, 9. Just in case you hadn't sorted this out yourself. Regards....

Nice signature and early date...might be good...any chance of more pics?

Jussi, I am quoting the descriptions given to this 'one large line in the hamon' by (A) Tokuno with oshigatas. I'm sure he has years of experience, but he may be one of those who "allows leeway" in his descriptions. (B) Markus, describing a drawing. I don't know where Markus got his info...other than years of study...but I assume it is his attribution. On my blade, the line is as you see it...it has 'breaks' in several places and is quite hard to see in places. I raised the matter because I had not had this feature in hand before I got this sword back in August 2020. I must say I am surprised it has taken me this long NOT to get a clear simple description written down in my file. So far I have made several decisions on descriptions, changed them again...at the moment I am 'sort-of' set on 'attributing' the line as (based on Tokuno and Sesko comments)" 1. sunagashi (although I think sunagashi has multiple lines) 2. imozuru/Inazuma (although inazuma has a dark colour). So at the moment it is Sunagashi - imozuru - inazuma. It will stay as this UNLESS - hopefully, a NMB member will pop up with a clear and simple explanation based on a source with pictures. My head hurts.

Thanks for that Jussi...I too am often having problems with Japanese, but I got the same basic facts as you show here...Shigetsugu is described by Tokuno in this oshigata as having sunagashi. The sword that raised this question is mine...it is shown in a photo in the OP...a short section of the blade with this line...the blade is of Tsukamoto Masakazu dated 4/1942. He is the brother and student of the great Tsukamoto Okimasa...see OP. The reason I have raised this topic is that Masakazu, his teacher Okimasa and his teacher Kasama Shigetsugu all have this line in their hamons. Tokuno calls it "sunagashi" and Markus Sesko calls it IMOZURU (potato vines) - a thick and conspicuous INAZUMA appearing in the habuchi (hamon border area) and hamon (which is where mine is). I raised this discussion to get clarity on which it is? Is my line sunagashi OR imozuru/inazuma? I will add that the line on my blade (like the line shown on Shigetsugu's oshigata) seems to go (with breaks) nearly all the way up the blade. Thanks Franco...yes, that is my idea of 'sunagashi-swept sands', so I was surprised that Tokuno used sunagashi to describe what is basically a single wide line on the Shigetsugu's oshigata. I think it might just be best if I show both Tokuno's and Sesko's information in my notes and leave it at that?

Michael I understand what you say...it is just that literally, most sources say it is "swept sand lines" as in multiple lines...in the case of the Shigetsugu oshigata, and his student Okimasa and his student Masakazu the feature is a single line (see attached Okimasa page from Tokuno - you will see he does not really describe the hamon/hamon features) but uses the term sunagashi for Shigetsugu (see Tokuno pp.180-181 below and look at hamons 8, 9 which are 'sunagashi' as we know it, but also look at hamons 16, 17 which are this one line type seen in the Masazkazu, Shigetsugu and Okimasa). Tokuno describes this line as sunagashi on the Shigetsugu oshigata, but unfortunately, he does not describe the features shown in his hamons on these pages 180, 181. So, on page 167 Tokuno calls it sunagashi - and I would like the passage that says it translated by someone fluent in Japanese so I can be sure that is what he said/means about this single line feature. Jacques, yes that does look like this line except mine is within the hamon and yours crosses the valleys (as does the hamon shown on p.181 #16 hamon below). Are you saying this is a feature of honsanmai made swords? Can you give the source and text details of the picture you show? Thanks all...

Hey guys, I think it would be best if I post that Shigetsugu oshigata above with its text (save a lot of misunderstanding - should have thought of it before). I'll just give my reading of the relevant sentence on sunagashi,....which I HOPE our Japanese fluent members can explain the full meaning...some phrases/pronunciations I am probably wrong on. So, talking about the construction of the blade the text goes to bottom paragraph, 4th column from right, third character down as follows ....ashi ga hasaki ni kakedashi so na hodo iri, karui sunagashi ga, kakate yaya arame no ko futsu potsu potsu to suita, .... This is the bit about the hamon... What do we think?

Thanks Will. Yes I have seen those graphics and several more and yes, you are right, most show sunagashi to be of several lines, not just one. But then the knowledgeable and reputable Tokuno describes a single line in the Shigetsugu hamon (above) as sunagashi. This single 'sunagashi' line appears in Shigetsugu's work, his pupil Okimasa's work and in his brother/pupil Masakazu's work...it is a definite, intended feature...what to call it? I have taken the Tokuno description as sunagashi to describe the feature in my sword unless a better source identifies it a different way. I hate unsettled matters...dangling answers...

Thanks guys. What do you all think the line shown in the oshigatas of Shigetsugu and Okimasa (shown above) should be called?...Tokuno calls Shigetsugu's 'sunagashi'. Edit to add (after many hours) a picture of 'sunagashi' from a www.samuraisword.com site that I now don't remember smith's name. I just copied this pic for why I now can't remember either...maybe I was looking up sunagashi? Just asking, this is the same type line in the hamon as mine and this site calls it a 'sunagashi'...what do you guys think? Regards,

Thanks for your replies guys...Yes my line is not 'bright'....it is darkish. I suppose it fits the classification of IMOZURU. The only problem is that the pics I show above from the book Nihonto Zukan by Tokuno (pp.167, 171) describe Shigetsugu's same hamon feature as SUNAGASHI (which is why I did) . Could Tokuno be wrong? I agree with Michael S above that usually, sunagashi tends to be multiple lines while mine is a single line...my Masakazu line matches his bro/teacher Okimasa and his line matches his teacher Shigetsugu and all three seem a good match to Markus's drawing which he calls IMOZURU. What term should I use? My head hurts. Edit to add (hours later), I just re-discovered this exact topic which I raised a year ago...got virtually the same results. I'm sorry, if I'd found it earlier I could have saved us some needless trouble. Duuhhh! in that outcome I decided on calling the line sunagashi...now a year later, I have had the nagging doubts again...I'm still not REALLY sure what to call that line...if an expert book by Tokuno calls it sunagashi, I suppose I should stay with that? Sorry to waste your time - twice! Previous topic is under 'sunagashi, imozuru - or?

Hi all, yes, me again. I am tidying up some of my notes etc and have a question for members regarding which line to follow on a hamon matter. Here are a series of pics of the hamon feature variously titled Inazuma, sunagashi and Imozru...which is correct in my case? First photo is of my Maskazu blade which I had classed as sunagashi based on a number of books including one showing his teacher Tsukamoto Okimasa's oshigata showing sunagashi and his teacher Kasama Shigetsugu's showing the same feature (all three images show the same feature/work). However, I was just reading Markus Sesko, in Kantei 3 - Boshi & Hamon #1 who has a drawing of this feature saying it is "Imozuru (potato vine - a thick conspicuous form of inazuma" (inazuma seems darker and 'sharper' in style to me). A look through a number of books shows Sunagashi as having more of multiple lines...I think Markus is right in my case. Can I have your opinions please?...just to tidy up a loose end. Images are: 1. my Masakazu 2. His teacher brother Okimasa - book doesn't say 3. His teacher Shigetsugu - same book, says sunagashi 4. Markus's drawing titled Imozuru (potato vine - a thick/conspicuous version of Inazuma)

Thanks Ewe, You are probably right, and I use it like that, but the problem for me is that I would just like to see those two kanji for this Tsukamoto smith given with the pronunciation included in kana as 'Yoshimasa' Hope I'm not being too much of a pain. I just like to be sure! Regards, and thanks to all for your comments here.

Thank you Manuel and also Bruno. Yes I have checked Chris' Index on Ikkansai smithd but his info only goes up the Masazumi...not the post-war name. I am using Yoshimasa in my records Manuel, but still would like to get some proper confirmation . Thanks...

According to the original model drawing pub. in 1944 the tassel is "threaded" through the hole and "looped". All the different types of sarute seen are just individual officer's 'unofficial' personal choice. Of the RS hilts I have had in hand, the hole diameter is a standard size. Also, I have tried "threading" the tassel through the hole and it went through fine...no damage etc. Hope this helps.

Mal, yes I see that entry...a nice little Seki mystery.

Thanks Manuel, I agree, but it is still a guess. I need a Japanese sword book, an on-line reference or a member's definite experience so that I a sure.