paulb

I have always regarded the title of Sensei as a courtesy title given as a form of respect in a similar way to the terms Artist and Scientist. When self applied they have no real value. Likewise when used with too greater frequency, like so many superlatives in modern life, they are devalued. There are those within our field of study such as Tanobe Sensei who have devoted their life to researching their subject and are recognised experts. These people fully deserve the accolade. Like David I regard myself as an eternal student and at the start of the climb rather than nearing the peak.

thank goodness for that I was getting very twitchy. Congratulations to the lucky owner I think it is a good looking piece.

Having originally decided I wouldn't take part (similar reasons to Barry H.) I have weakened and couldn't resist trying. I have preached on for so long about the benefit of doing kantei it would seem hypocritical not to have ago. 1. Shin-Shinto blade Koyama Munetsugu. based on Bizen influence and beautiful jigane. 2. I honestly don't have a clue. Dismissed Hizen because of Yasurimei. I initially thought Shin-shinto again but have opted for shinto Kunesada but with little confidence 3. Looks late kamakura Yamashiro influenced. rough hada looks to be wear rather than as a result of forging. Rai derivative school Echizen Rai Thank you Rayhan for the initiative. I think it has started a lot of people on the road to what is a great way to learn.

Gojimei Tadayoshi are very desirable. Because of this they are often faked. If your Friends sword is genuine , it polishes and receives high level authentication papers successfully it could be very valuable. However that is a large if and it is both time consuming and costly to go through the process. If it is right it would be worth it if not you might struggle to recover your restoration costs. You could sell as is and let someone else take the risk but of course you would realise a much lower value, perhaps 10-20% of the fully authenticated work. Sorry not much help but value is not set in stone it is governed by what someone is prepared to pay for it at the time.

Just to see how good a deal this is take a look at the gimei Kunimitsu on Aoi rt this morning. A nice blade with a less nice koshirae but starting at a lot higher price. I think John's tanto is better. It has a much better shape (in my humble opinion) and I think has a lot going for it.

fantastic. I wish they would consider doing more now. I guess they are fully occupied with submissions in Japan and therefore don't need to consider carrying out overseas events.

Hi Arnold did the NBTHK ever do a US shinsa? I thought they were always Japan only and only the NTHK did overseas shinsas, but as often the case I could well be wrong. I agree with you that the number of bad papers may well have been a very small percentage. Unfortunately there were enough for confidence in all earlier papres below Juyo to be regarded assuspect. While I have no doubts at all regarding Andy Quirt who I have regarded as a friend for many years and bought from in the past very happily I wonder why he, or the current owner havent sent it for new papers. I know it is hassle but some might think essential if they want to achieve that level of pricing. Of course it maybe they believe the sword speaks for itself and therefore new papers unnecessary but in the current market many people spending on high ticket items don't have the experience of earlier collectors and rely on the paper to give them confidence in what they are doing.

thank you Franco its another group to add to the pot. I will dig in to it a bit more. If I find anything definitive (which I doubt) I will let you know thanks for your input

http://www.nihontomessageboard.com/articles/Yamato_Sadayoshi.pdf

Truth is Jean other things took over and I didnt feel a great need. I continue to ponder and enjoy the process. To send this small blade to Japan which currently is the only option would take time and effort, although Paul Martin offers an excellent service but I guess I just havent found it necessary. In the interim other pieces have appeared which took more attention. The reason this one has come back to the forefront is the koshirae with wisteria has been finished. This is a very long way from my normal choice of koshirae but it just seemed right. I wanted something that differed from my black on black norm and certainly achieved that!!

About 4 years ago I posted a paper about a small tanto I had bought which was signed Sadayoshi. At the time I had decided to have it polished and Ted Tenold did a fantastic job on it. Subsequently I decided to have not 1 but 2 sets of koshirae made for it. While I fully accept this probably wasnt the financially most sensible thing I have ever done and now have far more tied up in this tiny blade than I am ever likely to realise in a future sale, I have to say I remain delighted with it. Sometimes there is just something in a blade that makes your heart sing and this 8" of old steel does it for me. I still don't know what it is, opinion continues to be evenly split as it was when I wrote the original paper but again I don't really care. See what you think

Mark, I am not sure it is of much help but it looks to be a very tight ko-itame. The brightness and apparent darkness makes it look as though there is a lot going on within the jigane which does seem far better than an average seki stamped sword. While it is impossible to tell what steel was used in its manufacture the hada does suggest it was at least partly hand made. The darkness in the steel might suggest imported steel was used. The Showa specialists can probably throw more light on it. If the rest of the sword is like this it looks to be an interesting piece, well done.

I think we have gone round and round the unqualified polishing discussion so many times and it is documented here to the point of tedium. 1. No we do not have the right to do what we like with artefacts of any form. Our duty is to conserve and maintain. Taking a historical piece and converting it to a "work of art" is not someones right it is irresponsible to the point of criminality. 2. Saying you would never work on an important sword is meaningless unless you are confident you are able to identify an important sword in an unpolished state. Few here after very many eyars expereince would make such a claim 3. No it may be that your sword is not commercial viable to send for an expensive polish. But if you cherish it as you say as a piece of history you should conserve it as such and not risk destroyong it by having a go at polishing. Sorry I am sounding like the unwelcoming and aggressive people I complain about here occassionally but we have had this debate so often heard the same arguments again and again and it really is not something to debate. Anyone who proffesses a love or even an interest in this subject should not argue in favour of "having a go" at polishing

Dwain I hope as you read more here you will find very few if any that would "scoff at the thought of owning such a terrible blade" everyone has their own interets and motives for collecting. Doesn't make one wrong or another right just different. What you will find here is guidance for those that ask for it as to what to look for and what is best avoided.

Dave I think the simplist explanation is that at some point in it's life it has been shortened and the lower hole is the original, the second cut to accomodate a new koshirae. It is not unusual to find this on wakazashi.

If you do send them to me I will get rid of them for you

Thanks for the kind words Dave and thank you for your own contribution which was considerable and much enjoyed. I agree with you that as the various groups meet together we are gaining a far better understanding of why things are made the way they are. It is obvious but often overlooked that none of these individual disciplines existed in isolation. Throughout history we see artisans changing from one to another. Armourers or gunsmiths becoming sword-smiths and visa versa. As technology evolved in one area so the others had to respond. Something else I know I keep whittering on about is we also forget that marketing and salesmanship were every bit as prevalent then as now. So much of design and style responded to fashion and hype as well as technical innovation. The more enthusiasts for each subject collaborate the better all of our understanding becomes. I would certainly echo your appreciation of Bob and Chis' genorosity and hospitality which was fantastic. They have set the bar very high for the next regional meeting but I am working on it

Dear All Below I have copied a brief report of a meeting held In Telford in the UK this weekend. Organised by the Token Society of great Britain as part of our commitment to hold regional meetings in different parts of the country alongside our 5 London meetings a year. The idea is to give those members who cant get to London the chance to take part in an alternative meeting. This one was slightly different in that rather than being in a museum or hotel conference room it was held in the house of one of our members. You will see from the report I believe it was very successful. What was especially encouraging was that their were members from all 4 sword socieities that exist within the UK and Ireland as well as some noted armour people. I am hopeful this approach will continue to develop and we can continue to develop these very beneficial and enjoyable days. I have also attached a couple of images to give a flavour of what was there. Attended by around 30 members from the feedback I received I believe this meeting was greatly enjoyed by all who took part. First and foremost we need to offer Bob and Chris Morrison a huge thank you for their overwhelming hospitality. Every one was well fed and watered (in fact many diets were shattered in a few hours, especially mine) and the effort they went to to create a suitable venue for the meeting was well over and above what might be reasonably expected. So Bob and Chris once again Many thanks. Also Thanks are due to our two main speakers, Tim Kaye who gave a fascinating insight in to his recent study of Christian themes in fittings and to Dave Thatcher who offered some considerable insight in to the design and manufacture of armour and helmets as firearms began to play a greater part in Samurai warfare. Finally thanks to those generous members who offered swords for study. Our theme was to examine nagamaki Naoshi and shinto blades made as copies of this form. There were some exceptional examples on display spanning three koto traditions in the Nambokucho and two shinto schools work. The quality of all was exceptional. The sales table proved a popular addition and I believe a number of those attending made successful purchases and sales. Alongside all this of course was a great deal of interesting discussion accompanied by a great deal of fun. I hope all those who attended learned something and enjoyed the day as much as I did. I look forward to our next regional event which we will plan for the first quarter of next year.

The key word in this is "exist" According to Fuller and Gregory some 350,000 blades were surrendered by the army and navy at the end of WWII. They go on to estimate tha actual number carried during the conflict was nearer 1 million. This number comprised of showa blades and a small percentage of traditional blades carried in guinto mounts. We all see evidence of these having been given away as trophies to the occupying forces and tend to forget that a huge number of them were dumped in the Pacific. During occupation having swords was illegal and blades were surrendered or confiscated. Again some of the "liberated" pieces ended up in the west but I would think many others were destroyed. With this a s a background I think 20 million is a huge over estimate (or printing error) by their very nature swords throughout history were at risk of being damaged or destroyed so the majority of those made in the 800 years preceding the war were lost. Combine this with the deliberate destruction post war then the existing number would I think be closer to 2 million or less. This is pure opinion and I would be interested in others views.

Like Brian we have just gone through a similar experience and you have our thoughts and sympathy. It is never easy but as Brian says you can take consolation in the qulaity of life you gave him through his many years. take care paul

I have soft spot for some of the off-shoot schools based on techniques of the main traditions. This I think is a good example of ko-Uda and an attractive sword (at least in my mind) as are some of the better ko-Mihara and Enju work. There is a lot to like in this sword. I have recently seen a number of good swords trying to be Norishige, They are interesting and well made but placed side by side with an authentic work by that master they come nowhere near. This, if it was trying to be a Norishige falls well short of that goal. I agree with Michael ko-Uda smiths produced some very good swords and every school has it's masterpieces this is a good work but I wouldn't class as outstanding.

This is going to sound wierd but for me no. This is an incredible thing, it is unbelievably rare (ubu, long mei and the rest) and in great condition. There is no doubt that it is "fine art" It demonstrates all the features you would hope to see in that school and period. What it lacks for me is that extra step that takes it beyond the fine art category. This of course comes down to personal preference and as has often been pointed out Bizen isn't particularly mine. However I think much of the pricing and high level papers on this may be attributed to it's great rarity and condition rather than exceptional "stand out" quality when compared to other Osafune smiths of the period.

I think you need someone Like Ford to advise you. To me it loooks like the aged remains of paper and glue from an old sticky label (hate it when people stick these things on the surface of anttique metal and wood!!) If so it may come away with alcohol such as methylated spirit but PLEASE take more authorative advice before trying.

Hi Jussi Working from memory which is never a great idea I cannot remeber seeing an example of a sword being papered to Rai. The same is not true for Awataguchi where it is seen quite regularly. I think it was found that the workmanship of the 6 brothers was very similar and too close to call on mumei swords. Likewise the work of Kunitomo and his son Norikune were described as being identical. Based on this I think Ray has hit the nail on the head, there was sufficent diffrences in the various Rai generations to make a more definitive attribution possible. In addition their work is more prolific than others therefore there are a greater number of signed examples to use for comparison.

I wish my customers would have given me gifts like this Can't tell too much in it's current state but it looks to be a perfectly reasonable wakazashi in fairly basic mounts. I like the saya. As an unsigned wakazashi of standard form it might not make commercial sense to have it polished but from what I can see I think it would take a polish without great issue and you would see a lot more life in it than you can currently. Would put it at mid Edo period and one of any number of schools working under Mino influence at the time. As said a nice gift well done