Shugyosha

Hi Piers, That's what it looks like to me, but I've googled Sanshu Masaharu with nil returns but there's lots for Bushu Masaharu so it might be our eyes that are the problem.

My pleasure. Somewhere, I'm sure I have an old book on Nobuie somewhere - when I say old, I mean that the illustrations are oshigata rather than photos and it's in Japanese. I don't know how much use it would be but I'm happy to dig it out and see what's inside if you like. Edit: I'm pretty sure that it's this one from Grey's website, that's where I got mine from anyway. https://www.Japanese...hu-with-translation/

Hi Greg, Could you dust the tang with some talcum powder to try to bring out the kanji and re-post a photograph please? It won't hurt the blade and will make it smell nice too!

Hi David, here you are- I hope the pics are good enough for what you need, if not let me know and I’ll try again.

Hi David, I believe I have it. I'll need to look it out but I'll post pictures of the pages on this thread later today or first thing tomorrow UK time if that's OK. PM me if you'd rather have them sent that way.

Hi Nigel, Lots of signatures on koto blades are scratchy and poorly cut - pretty much any signature on any Bizen blade from the Muromachi period will look like this. One opinion I've read was that it was done this way to avoid work-hardening the tangs but it's not conclusive of being gimei by itself.

Dear Mods, Can I please trouble you to close this thread and archive as I've decided to keep the remainder of my collection. Thank you!!

Hi Alexander, I’d work from newer to older. If you start with high quality shin shinto and work backwards you’ll get a feeling for what you’re prepared to tolerate in terms of condition. For me, condition trumps age and (what now look like) strong purposeful blades float my boat and thin and whispy old blades, not so much. Your views, of course, are as valid as mine. Consequently, a long (ish?) blade with classic Kamakura sugata in good conition really works for me. That is probably the sweet spot in terms of what I like vs what I would ever be prepared to spend. Short of lottery wins etc of course. Your wallet may be fatter of course…good hunting!

Looks fine to me, but I have quite conservative views. You might want to consider the overall shape in the context of the motif or theme and use of space and perhaps also in terms of what you hope to learn from the exercise but it’s your spare time so use it in a way that pleases you. Look forward to seeing the fruits of your labours.

Hi Michael. I think there certainly was a degree of infatuation with anything foreign in the Edo period so the angle of the marketing gimmick shouldn't be overlooked but I also think that there was an issue with the availability of good quality iron sand/ ore for sword making. For example, Hizen blades had thin outer steel as they used the good stuff sparingly and the quality and quantity of raw materials wasn't the same as in earlier koto times. This is a factor that affected the quality of shinto blades and fuelled the perception that they were inferior to koto blades from before, say, Onin (usually when Bizen blades are thought to have lapsed into mass production). As you say there is no stated percentage of foreign steel on those blades where it is mentioned. Perhaps smiths used it to pad out their stocks of oroshigane and kept the tamahagane for commissioned blades or outer steel as per the Hizen blades. I saw a blade a couple of weeks ago which (if I translated correctly) suggested that the edge steel was nanban tetsu. That is as precise as I have ever seen reference to the quantity of nanban tetsu in a blade (actually it's the only time) so that might suggest that it was sufficiently remarkable for the smith to note it on the tang...but it's all supposition. Here's Markus Sesko talking about sumigane which he suggests is actually the shingane showing through. The ones on the blade photographed look different to the examples in the article. https://markussesko....i-2-jigane-jihada-1/ Do you have full length photos of both sides of the blade? It would be interesting to see whether they travel the full length of the blade and are on both sides.

This is a bit out on a limb but maybe sumigane? Dark inclusions seen in some Hizen and Rai blades? I cant see them clearly as I’m on my phone but they seem too regular to be a flaw…but Grey and Alex probably know better than me so value that snippet accordingly.

Hi Steve, could it be Sekishuu - Iwami rather than Ishikawa?

Well my breath is taken. It looks fantastic, congratulations!

Hi Adam, You're wrong. Have a look at the criteria for the award of Hozon here: https://swordsofjapa...k-shinsa-guidelines/ "Hozon" simply means that the sword is worthy of preservation so, provided there are no fatal flaws i.e. loss of boshi, yaki otoshi etc then a blade will receive Hozon papers. Essentially the key bit of a sword is the cutting edge and if that is intact then it is considered worthy of preservation even if there are issues with the hada and a dodgy horimono - the starting point is that any traditionally made Japanese sword is worthy of preservation if not fatally flawed. Badly made blades with very ugly kizu are, however, unlikely to receive higher papers unless they are remarkable in some way from a historic point of view by virtue of extreme age or being owned by a famous person. There will even be exceptions to this - a blade attributable to Sengo Muramasa will most likely receive Hozon papers even if the hamon drops off the edge of the sword. For some reason in this case it is considered his work style and it gets a pass and will probably get higher papers because of who made it. Hizen blades will get higher papers with their core steel showing because they used thin outer steel and it polishes away quickly. There's some logic there that works for the oriental mind perhaps and westerners just have to accept that, whilst there are rules, they won't necessarily be applied in all cases. Hope that helps. Edit: Sorry, Manuel said it more succinctly.

Ah - sorry, I don’t buy from these sites so i’m largely ignorant of the process and I missed that.

Well it looks like someone has drunk the Koolade: 13m Yen is the current bid (unless it’s the seller bidding of course). Joseph, I hope that wasn’t you…

That's entirely possible, and thanks for the correction. I'm using the head-slap emoji quite a bit at the moment.

Yep, what Jason and Grev said.

Hi Reinier, I could of course be wrong, I can't see the sugata which would be helpful in judging the age of the blade and it could be a shin-shinto blade too, based on the following three considerations: The shape of the hamon is carried through into the boshi. Often with shinto and later blades there will be no variation between the two and in this case we see a suguba hamon (perhaps with a little notare) continue through the point whereas in koto schools there is often a different shape to the hamon in the boshi than before it This is of course a generalisation and you will now immediately find me exceptions but it is something to have in mind. The hamon itself: I don't see any activity within the hamon below the nioi guchi which I think has some ko-nie. Koto blades tend to have more going on in terms of ashi and yo and other features but I can't see any in the pictures. Hada - this is quite fine in the hiraji to the extent that it is hard to pick out (at least on my computer screen). Shinto blades are often quite finely forged compared to koto blades and in shin shinto blades this can be taken almost to the vanishing point. The grain in the shinogi-ji is more obvious and fairly straight. Because societal factors including the great that wiped out Osafune and other sword villages in Bizen province, it was sword making techniques used in the Mino schools that for the most part passed down into the shinto schools and Mino blades often have a straight grain above the shinogi due to the orientation of the core steel or back steel depending on the construction of the blade. This is what I see here but it doesn't have any obvious Mino traits so added into the above it suggests shinto to me. The point I was trying to make is that, because the blade is fairly bland with little to see (at least based on these photographs), I wouldn't spend my money on it. I have bought a blade that I knew had a fatal flaw but I did so because it was cheap, it was interesting and had nice fittings that I though might display well. I hope that helps and gives you some points to consider.

I think you have to weigh it in the context of the price. It's a fatal flaw or very close to one so it has to have something else about it make you part with your money because you may be stuck with it for a long time and lose money when you sell it on. Looking at the pictures, it looks like a shinto blade and there isn't anything remarkable about it in terms of hada or hamon to justify the risk so I'd probably pass, but it's your money. Edit: Mark got there ahead of me but I posted because I'd already typed a reply.

Hi Hendrik, Nice blades! There are 5 Yamashiro kami Kunikiyo working in the Edo period (from Markus Sesko's compendiu): Kunikiyo (国清), 1st gen., Kan´ei (寛永, 1624-1644), Echizen Kunikiyo (国清), 2nd gen., Kanbun (寛文, 1661-1673), Echizen Kunikiyo (国清), 3rd gen., Tenna (天和, 1681-1684), Echizen Kunikiyo (国清), 4th gen., Hōei (宝永, 1704-1711), Echizen Kunikiyo (国清), 5th gen., Kyōhō (享保, 1716-1736), Echizen The blade isn't dated so without comparing the work style of each of these smiths to the blade it's hard to be more precise. The online Nihonto Club index gives the following ratings for some of the smiths, but there's a discrepance with the dates: Kunikiyo KUN361 國清 1st Echizen Genna (1615-1624) 60 / 550 / Jo-jo saku Kunikiyo KUN362 國清 2nd Echizen Kanei (1624-1644) Kunikiyo 30 / 350 / Jo saku Kunikiyo KUN365 國清 4th Echizen Kanbun (1661-1673) 25 / / I'm away from my books at the moment so I can't help resolve that or provide other ratings. On the ura the inscription reads: 鍛南蛮鐵釼之 - Kitau nanban tetsu hagane kore - This was forged using Southern Barbarian steel for the hagane. The first blade you posted looks very interesting and some close-up photos would be great. Also, if you sprinkle a little talcum powder into the chisel marks on the last kanji it might help point towards a reading.

Bonjour Clement, On the tsuba where there is active red rust I would try to neutralise that to avoid it damaging the surface further. With sword blades what is usually suggested is wrapping in cloth or newspaper soaked in mineral oil WD40 will do or anything that used around the house. If you wrap them fairly tightly and leave for a few weeks, when you take it off it should take some of the rust away with it and the rest should settle down and not cause further damage. You can then decide what you want to do with them and the ones that are less damaged, but I understand that it takes some patience. If you do a search on the internet or on here for "tsuba fussing" you'll get the idea - it usually involves working on the corroded bits with something softer than the steel such as bone, horn or wooden toothpicks. This will start you off and the work was commended by Ford Hallam who is the man with the deepest knowledge on this subject on here: Bon courage!

I had a blade with a worse mune ware than that. I made a point of using a little oil just to make sure that no moisture could get in but beyond that, it shouldn’t be a concern. Mine got no worse when it was in my keeping.

Hi Bruno, I’m not sure about the “da” otherwise I agree with you. Nothing coming up on a Google of Fukuda or anything similar in terms of kanji with the enclosure radical and with Toshimasa. Meikan more? If you have a picture of the whole tsuba we could try to guess the school which might help?

It’s not a big deal otherwise it wouldn’t have got higher papers: it’s about as far from the cutting edge as it can be. Trouble is, once you know it’s there, it starts to nag so you need to be happy to turn a blind eye to it.