Shugyosha

Hi John, It's 九百十 - the middle one isn't very clearly carved.

I've just booked my flight for next year...

Hi Athanasios, Welcome to the forum. Unfortunately, (and I don't mean to be dismissive, so please don't take offence) you might already know as much about the blade as you are going to. The problem with shinshinto, and to some extent shinto, blades is that they often lack any distinguishing characteristics that can help to place them geographically or within a particular school so it is going to be difficult to tell you much more about an unsigned blade from this timeframe than you already know. If it helps, there's nothing there that suggests that it is anything other than as described so you at least have the genuine article. Did it come with any kind of scabbard or other fittings? The habaki looks like it is better quality than normal so that is encouraging as someone thought enough about it to give it more than a basic outfit and I find the overall shape quite graceful and easy on the eye which is not the case with all blades from this period so I think that those are positive points. What might help when you have a moment is if you are able to take some photographs of the blade as scanned images tend to obscure details. If you are able to do that in a darkened room with a single point of light, place the blade on something soft and on a flat surface and you will be able to move the blade around in the light to reveal the details that are there. If you are able to post some pictures of the detail in the hamon, hada and boshi you may get some better comments. Apologies for not being more helpful and, once again, welcome to NMB and this fascinating hobby and congratulations on your new blade.

Didn't you hear about the ronin in the gloaming?

Another reason for the number might have been that a local lord ordered a number of spears for his armoury and each one got a number on the tang.

What happens in Vegas...

Hi Jean and Glen, Many thanks for your comments.

It’s very clean, absolutely no stains and the colour of the meatball is very red and the ink is very black…could have been made yesterday.

Hi Piers and Jean, Sorry, I'm late to this but my interest was piqued. So a related question for Jean, we are always told that a punched mekugi ana is an indicator of an older blade and that of a "drilled" peg hole is suggestive of a later blade but I've never really known where the cut-off point was and in my head (more than likely incorrectly) had it down as later koto period because: I'm pretty sure that I've seen "drilled" mekugi ana on shinto blades (but I'm working from memory, so I may have that wrong); and I recall Darcy writing that the scratchy signatures on later Bizen blades were done in that way to avoid work-hardening the tang, which would (I assume) be done if the mekugi ana was punched - and I guess that might be applicable to armour plates too and perhaps make them too brittle (again beyond my metallurgical knowledge so nothing I can back up with evidence); also I recall Ford saying that sukashi work was done by drilling a hole or holes and then joining them up with a file or saw. On earlier katchushi/ tosho tsuba there is often very fine sukashi - I had what I believe was a ko katchushi dragonfly tsuba (I have an old photo which is too high resolotion to upload) and there are others out there where the delineation between the wings and the design of the head is very finely done (in the sense of it is small) and would have been hard to achieve by punchwork rather than drilling and cutting. With regard to swords, I guess that it would be possible for the peg-hole to be created by punching prior to final hardening and tempering of the blade but there is the risk that the work would be wasted if the blade cracked on the quench? So, I don't know what the answer is, I'm just throwing stuff out for discussion and I don't want to get down to the level of the cast tsuba/ moldings debate but it's certainly interesting to discuss and any insights would be welcome.

Hi Peter, The title of the first one is tricky due to the position of the mekugi ana. It’s (?) (no) Suke but there wasn’t a Yoshimasa with this title relating to Kazusa or Kozuke which are the province names starting with the 上 kanji - so I think you’ll need to wait for better help there. The title of the second one is Izumi (no) kami.

Hi Zachary, I don’t think that old papers attributing a tsuba to a generic school are a problem. The issue was with old papers and swords being attributed to big-name sword smiths. In this case it would probably cost close to or more than the value of the tsuba to re-submit to shinsa so that bit isn’t a concern - it’s the multiple listings that might be a problem.

Again, don’t know - I’d steer clear if you have doubts: it doesn’t sound like a legitimate seller to me.

Oh - sorry, posts crossed. Don’t know because I don’t do internet auctions. If it helps, the tsuba and papers match and the papers are old but look legitimate. I don’t think there’s much point in faking papers to Shoami but that’s my opinion.

I think worth the price? An unsigned, papered tsuba to a fairly generic school, at USD 369 - yes it’s probably worth that and shouldn’t lose money if the OP sells it on.

Hi Petro, It's probably going to be hard to pin it down without more detailed photographs. By where was it made, do you mean is it Japanese or are you looking for a particular school or province within Japan? At first blush it looks (to me) to be a genuine Japanese sword but I might change my mind on that if I saw some close-up shots - that might give a more precise idea of where it was made, but may not. Assuming that it is a genuine Japanese sword then, unfortunately, there's no signature on the tang so, without more detail, dating it comes down to the colour of the patina on the tang (which might be unreliable) and I'd stick my finger in the air and say anything from 1900 up to World War 2. The long, slanting file marks on the tang are common to a wide range of periods so they don't really help with dating it. The tsuba looks like it might be OK (i.e. a genuine period piece) from the photographs and the design of the scabbard is one found on genuine Japanese swords but it may not be original to the blade as it looks a little too long. Sorry, it's hard to say much more without some better pictures - if you can post some you'll get some better opinions. If this is something you're looking at buying rather than something you've bought already, I'd say doing so isn't without some risk so proceed with caution unless it's very cheap.

I just don't want to get drawn into a thread started by Jacques because they invariably follow a predictable path. It has been this way for a while now and it seems to be getting worse rather than better.

Hi Gareth, Ive had a bit of a look on-line but there isn’t much by way of comparison for the mei. That said, my gut feeling is that this smith would be an unlikely target for fakery as he isn’t well known, but you never know. You could try photographing with a single point of light in a darkened room to see if that brings out any details but I suspect that, due to the state of polish, you’ll find it hard going. If you have no joy on here, there’s a Token Society meeting in Birmingham next month and also the Birmingham arms fair - you could walk it in to one of those and see if someone will look at it for you.

Yeah, Jacques' military-grade hair-splitting and obfuscation would have made the Wehrmacht think twice.

I would say that might be flawed reasoning: it is possible that the other parts of the koshirae (or some of those parts) are modern - it isn't unusual for antique metal fittings to be added to a modern saya for example. I'm sorry Stefano, I'm not sure what you're saying with the part in bold?

No problem at all. The signatures on the blades of kogatana are normally not those of the smith that made them - for some reason there was a thing about putting the names of famous swordsmiths on these little blades and it's the accepted thing that the signatures are not very often those of the maker. The kozuka would have been made by one of the sword fittings artists working in soft metals rather than a swordsmith and it is absolutely normal for the two pieces to be made by different craftsmen and put together - it could have been done when the fittings were made or recently by a dealer wishing to make up the set.

Ooh I like those! - any signature on the fuchi?

Hi Steven, I was hoping that one of the brighter lights would have solved this one for you (and to satisfy my curiosity). All I can give you is (presumably) the name of the soldier who carried it - the two kanji on the right read 佐藤 - Satō, a fairly common Japanese surname.

Hi Stefano, On the kozuka: 吉岡因幡介 - Yoshioka Inaba (no) Suke On the kogatana: 河内守国助 - Kawachi (no) kami Kunisuke

Hi Peter, Yes - Yokoyama Sukenaga: 横山加賀介藤原朝臣祐永 - Yokoyama Kaga (no) suke Fujiwara ason Sukenaga 天保十二年二月日 - Tenpo juni nen, ni gatsu hi - a day in February in the 12th year of Tenpo (1841) 備前長船住 - Bizen Osafune ju - residing at Osafune in Bizen 友成五十六代孫 - Tomonari gojuroku dai mago - 56th generation grandchild of Tomonari