Brian

Fantastic news Grey. The Index is one of the most worthwhile resouces we have, and I am ashamed to admit I haven't got it yet. But if you can let me know if there is a source that can accept Paypal, I'll rectify that immediately. Yet another reason to be a member of the JSSUS folks (and other organisations of course) and support them in their work. It takes a lot of time and money to do this stuff. Hopefully we have some tech-savvy members who can assist with the job, I really look forward to seeing it online too. Please keep us updated. Brian

Reading that gave me a headache. :lol: Brian PS - You forgot unusual style + valid mei = true

A good read: http://homepage.ntlworld.com/d.fuller30/hada.html I actually haven't seen this page before, and at a first glace it is quite well done. Let's not debate this too much...there is a fine line (konuka? :lol: ) between them often. Brian

Milt...sometimes the work is too far from the original style to be shoshin :lol: There are limits. Style and mei doesn't match and the work seems to be too late according to Ford? Would go well with my rooster vases though Brian

Removed by eBay. Good catch! Brian

Yes, we get that. :lol: I see what Pete is saying, and agree with it in principle. He is not saying the mai is more important than the work, but they both play a part. Let's say that an important smith decided oneday to veer totally off track from his usual work. Maybe he is experimenting with a new technique, or just fooling around that day. Everybody might say that it isn't his work, as none of his usual traits are to be found. However if the mei is good enough to be his beyond most doubt, it lets us go further into examining the piece and it might be papered to him. No, we don't collect signatures, but while the "work confirms the mei" is a good and valid point, we mustn't discount the mei. That is why we have Japanese books full of mei. Otherwise you could just submit a sword that bears all the traits of a smith, and it would paper. But no..they still look at the mei to confirm the work, no? There is still a LOT of learning that we all have to do into many smith's works. Even the NBTHK says they come across undocumented smiths regularly. A mei is not by any means the way to come to a definite conclusion, but in the case of Pete's tsuba..if it was mumei, I bet that it would have gone to another smith. (Can't prove that, but there is every chance) The mei probably added to the research process, made them look at it harder, and come to that conclusion. Not all smiths made each and every sword or fitting according to a set formula, and while they have tendancies in work styles, I bet there are an awful lot of mumei swords out there that were made by good smiths working outside of their usual style. I know this can be debated to death, and there are points of mine that can be torn apart, so I should just mention this is just my opinion, and not carved in stone Work first...but don't discount the mei. Brian

Can't help thinking that if a Japanese dealer had a Kotetsu, he wouldn't sell it on eBay unless he had verified if it was shoshin or not? Somehow I can't see these guys trying something at $10K that could be worth a heck of a lot more if they put it through shinsa. A private guy who doesn't know a lot, maybe. But a regular dealer...hmmm. Brian

Dying to find out the answer, this was a good one. Any last guesses from anyone? Brian

Must say, this is not going to be an easy one to solve. As Moriyama san said, the eyes can play tricks on you, and you can start to see what you want. I do see a definite stroke where I highlighted in red. But still makes no sense to me Brian

If it was 21 June 2008 they they would have caught up any backlog, and been quite a bit ahead of their time :lol: Brian

Better to be a dork and a loser than a conman. If he doesn't know what he has, then he is just misguided. But once he knows, and has been told, and keeps up the pretense, then he shifts over to the conman league. Brian

Ah jeez... Sometimes I think they actually believe this crap. Not the first of these that I have seen that they want $100K upwards for. Someone there is telling them it is real, as the last guy here with one really believed it. *sigh* Brian

Not sure if this is the same Tsunenao, but a bit of info I found on the net: Bonhams: http://www.mfa.org/collections/search_a ... e&id=22307 http://www.mfa.org/collections/search_a ... e&id=11460 (work looks the same) http://www.artfact.com/catalog/viewLot. ... e=ZNZ4G4wo http://www.truefork.org/Photography/Tsuba_1.php (Tsuba signed by Tsunenao) Brian

:D :lol: Sorry...have to laugh. We advise Sebastian to go and buy Haynes which he does, and then the very next tsuba he buys is one of the few that isn't in there. Ironic! :D Good books to have though Sebastian. I wonder if there is anything on this school in the pdf documents I have listed in the General Discussion section? Field museum or Boston museum books? Brian Edit to add: http://www.bonhams.com/cgi-bin/public.s ... ineNo=3390 Bonhams mentions on the page that in their sale (just passed) they have a namban tsuba by Ichinomiya Tsunenao. Worth looking through the catalog to find it. Could it be the same artist?

Here's a different look. Not sure if it will help at all. Brian

Danny has a brilliant article: http://www.nihontocraft.com/Mishina.html I couldn't make out that kami properly, but it seems to be Kyoto branch to me. What confuses me is that on this page: http://www.ricecracker.com/info/yoshimichi.htm they say "Only the Kyoto Tanba uses the Kiku on the nakago" and here: http://www.juwelier-strebel.de/Asien/Japan/Katana.htm they say "The Osaka branch signed almost identical, but without the Kiku." But Osaka 1st gen is listed with the kiku mon in Danny's article?? No wonder us novices get confused :? The tachi mei is unusual, so I will still go with my flyer and say there is a mei on the ura and the omote. Or not.... hehe. Brian Edit to add: I now believe this is Kyoto branch from the blown up pic, fwiw. The query above is no longer relevant then, but still confusing if you are researching Osaka Yoshimichi with a kiku?

Jock, If the mei is shoshin (no idea) and the cutting test is genuine, then I guess some would want it as an example and a study piece. You can still see everything the sword has to show, just it is not a functional item anymore. I guess if you have the money, it is a neat discussion piece. But what it is worth depends on how much extra cash you have lying around :lol: Brian

Sebastian.. Just curious. These tsuba you have are quite nice pieces, and I am sure they are not cheap. So how do you spend a few $100 or more and not know what the signature says before you buy them? I would think if I was spending $600 or $1000 or whatever, I would want to know what signature is on it first? Just wondering Brian

It has 2 hagire. No-one here is going to recommend a sword with fatal flaws unless it is really cheap and you are going to use it to study something. But at over $1000..do you want a fatally flawed blade with no real resale possibilities? Brian

(Where is the smiley for Doh!) I missed that. Good lesson on how to look at everything. Hmm..more research needed. taking a stab in the dark...I wonder if this could be signed by father and son, with Yamato no Kami Yoshimichi on the other side? (Edit to add.. I think the 1st generation (1644) Osaka Yoshimichi signed with a kiku, and I wonder if this could be a collaboration with one of him sons, Yamato no kami Yoshimichi?) Brian

To avoid futher confusion, I think what people are saying here is that this is a copy. Paul Chen or otherwise. However I don't see nearly enough to confidently make that assumption (or deny it) I think all we can do is wait for it to arrive, and then you post better pics Jock. If it is a copy, then you will have a good case against the seller. However I would rather see more pics before deciding that. Usually copies are much more obvious and we don't have to go into the look of the steel etc to identify them. But there are production grade copies that are getting better all the time, made for sport usually such as Chen etc. All we can do now is wait and see what arrives. Brian

Well..the "kami" kanji and the kiku-mon show it is the Kyoto branch of the Yoshimichi line. Second generation onwards? I would have to go with 2nd, 3rd or 4th. But need to research more before I can take a stab at which one Brian Edit to add..can we see a closer pic of the kami kanji? Can't really see if it is the Osaka or Kyoto style, and am second guessing myself)

I looked earlier, and despite not having seen sudareba in hand before, and working only from what I have seen in books, pics on the net and theoretical diagrams, it also made me think of sudareba immediately. Not quite sure if that is the typical Mishina boshi? But with what looks like textbook sudareba and hataraki rising almost to the shinogi, I would have to go with Mishina ha, and one of the Yoshimichi lineage. Tanba no Kami Yoshimichi, second generation? Brian

Barry, Sorry if it came across as a correction, I am not even sure if that is indeed the old saying..just seem to remember it somewhere. I was just emphasising how the old humour confirmed the amount of gimei Kotetsu blades out there. Does anyone know the wording of the old saying? Brian

Barry, I could be totally mistaken, but wasn't that saying "out of every 10 Kotetsu you come across, 11 of them are gimei?" :D :lol: Brian