Brian

John, This auction pic seems to show it best, but I have no idea what it says

Thank you all. I think i'll fit the clasped hands one for now, if I don't have a different one. I know the dealer bought it a few years ago on auction in the UK and brought it back to SA. So I'm good with him making some profit as I also got the dagger for a good price. Didn't take long to find the auction where it was sold: https://denhams.com/lot/718/april-2023 Some nice history. I got his photo, framed story summary and his Vice Admiral commission. Need to ask him if he still has the ship photo and medal ribbons. Captain Caslon and the HMS Nelson. Lots to be found on him online. Nice to know he was there and is well known. Must have been an interesting surrender ceremony, I guess they just pulled swords from the pile and gave them out.

It IS a requirement. At least first name, unualky followed by initial.

John, Are they consistently mounted on the blade side of tsuka, since they don't swivel around to the other side?

The above all considered, I have a ton of respect for those who pick a very specific theme and focus on just that, learning as much as they can about one particular school or smith or style. I give them a lot of credit when it comes to info, since it's easier to study one topic instead of trying to know them all, and these guys often pick up stuff even the experts/NBTHK etc etc might now. For example Roger when it comes to Hizento, and our members like Bryce here studying these 2 smiths, and other members studying Natsuo, etc. Infallible, of course not. But credit where credit is due.

You can't delete a topic. We got sick of people not getting the answer they want or throwing a fit down the line and trying to delete all their posts, messing up the forum. You can edit content for a certain time based on your membership level See more details here: https://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/subscriptions/ If there is a valid reason to delete a topic,you can message a moderator or admin. Hope this helps

Hi all, Just a quick one. I'll post pics in a day or 2. Recently saw a fairly average Kai Gunto at a small arms fair here. Decent condition, and as translated here a few weeks ago, by the 23rd gen Kanefusa: https://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/53270-assistance-with-2-mei-please Likely halfway between Seki Showato and Gendaito, maybe better quality Showato. Anyways, what's nice is that it came with a photo of the Captain and paperwork showing he was presented it at the surrender of Japan ceremony as he was the commander of HMS Nelson. So just a bit more interesting. I traded it for a very collectible dagger I have that the dealer wanted. Asking price on the sword was about $2300....too much but as a trade it was ok. The sarrute is missing, everything else seems complete. My question (long way of asking) is was there a more prominent variation of the sarute on standard Kai Gunto (2 ashi, speckled black laquered saya) or is any of the Shin Gunto variants acceptable on these? Looking through my parts, I have a clasped hands one spare, and was wondering if that would be correct/appropriate if I was to fit it?

I am NOT going to allow this to be a discussion about the intention or person behind the advise here. Anyone who takes it there better gtfo out this thread, or take a break. I've had enough of people gunning for others, without adding zero to the study of Nihonto. Either you decide to take the advice (or parts of it) or you don't. In which case you ignore this thread and read others. Anyone posting personal attacks here WILL take a break. The advice is solid. Whether you choose to follow it or not, depends on how you collect. But since it's the same advice given in some major Nihonto books..are you arguing against that too? I don't care if you follow this advice or not. Myself?...I don't. I am ok where I collect, and know at what level I collect. But while I myself don't adhere to that advice, I am grown up enough to read it and appreciate where it comes from and not take it personally. If I can do that, you guys can too. So either politely discuss, or ignore this thread. I'm in too much pain to let this stuff add to my stress. Take the above seriously, I don't have time to babysit.

Sometimes..just sometimes, when i think members are strong enough to hold their own, I let things ride because I have every faith they are able to handle themselves and provide decent rebuttals. I try use censorship only as a last resort. Sam made the right call. Some of you here really showed your true colors. Hokke...you don't even know when someone wasn't attacking you, but talking about something completely different, but you immediately go into attack mode? Sheesh. I think kindergardens deal with fewer kids than we sometimes have to. When I am back at the pc for a decent amount of time, there will be some changes.

I was generalizing...didn't have anyone in mind when I said that. It was literally what I try not to do...not what I'm accusing others of doing. It's more those people who know zero about swords, swoop up the most rusted gimei relic they can find that doesn't even have a boshi left, and post here for the first time expecting to have found treasure. We see it so often. Not exclusive to Nihonto, German militaria collectors have it worse. I'm betting the coin collectors too.

Nope....more true than just about most places in the world. In fact almost impossible to find decent Nihonto even if you have the funds here. And with an exchange of about 18 Rands to $1, even harder to ever save for a decent sword since it would likely pay off a house mortgage or car. Which is exactly WHY I am very comfortable collecting at the lower level, without romancing about the history of the item or treasure hunting. Knowing what you have and being happy with it is what collecting is for me. If I want to see top stuff, I've made a plan to visit overseas numerous times and seen great quality. Looking at out of polish swords and being able to recognize possible good swords, knowing you won't be able to have them polished but preserving them so that someone else down the line a generation or 2 later might be able to investigate more, is enough for me. No...I don't subscribe to the "you can only collect top stuff" mantra. But I also don't build up kazuuchimono to great levels where I think I found the Honjo Masamune either. It's all about a middle ground. I also am able to separate the militaria enthusiast in me that loves having a plainish T95, kai Gunto, Shin Gunto etc as an example of wartime swords, from the Nihonto collector in me.

Seems you failed at the task anyways. You bough in good polish and condition with papers. Price has nothing to do with the conversation. Anyone currently in Japan can pick those up. Go back and buy out of polish...horrible condition without papers. Then do nothing and put that in for Tokuhozon. Along with some rocks.

Yes, but when you pick up a PPSH or Moisin Nagant or Type 1 AK47, you are picking up a relic of the past, something with romance and history that was made in the hundreds of thousands. You don't put that into your collection and claim you have a rare or significant specimen. It's a reminder of the past that isn't particularly scarce, just interesting. For that you go looking for a (very good condition) Mauser C96 or an Artillery Luger or a Stable Trials Moisin Nagant etc etc. People need to decide for themselves if they are militaria collectors or Japanese sword collectors. Nothing wrong with either, militaria swords are outperforning average Nihonto in price, so it makes sense. I appreciate both.

I'm really not sure what people object to about what Rayhan said here. It's the truth. Over the years, every week we see people asking about old relic blades that are likely beyond repair, but on being told they may be 3-500 years old, regard them as treasures and aren't interested in anything else. The more you progress through collecting Japanese swords, the less you care about how old it is, and the more you care about quality. Yes...some want to collect Heian or Koto exclusively, but the condition and quality is always of prime importance. Who here would choose a rusted, pitted Koto sword barely in one piece over an in polish well executed Shinto shrine sword in perfect condition purely because of the age? Nothing wrong with collecting romance and imagination. If you want to believe your sword fought at Sekigahara....fine. But are you going to ignore condition and quality over romance? If you think a rusted piece of iron is more important because of age, then maybe you should go to those old battlefields and collect a few rocks. They also have a great tale to tell. So do the nails in old castles. The idea that age is more important than quality is one most collectors don't subscribe to. That doesn't mean you aren't allowed to collect what you want. There are collectors for everything. But it does mean you don't get to deride those for whom quality and importance overrides romance and dreams. Coin collectors know this well. Age doesn't equal value. So do people collecting paintings or art. Or ceramics. So why do the sword guys think they are special? Collect what you like. But let's not rebel against the idea that Nihonto isn't all about Samurai or age.

Thanks for the write up, looks like an amazing day. Well done to all. I'll turn the pics a bit later. The key is to edit them on phone or pc even minutely and save. That locks the orientation.

I have every confidence in Sam's decisions. He made the right choice. I opened it again for people to have their last say so that no-one blames Sam. Then I can lock it again like I am going to do to this one, and then people can blame me. Enough of this bullshit.

Crazy amounts. As in an endless supply. All genuine, but not seen as worthy for condition or cost of restoration reasons.

This is the worst of the worst, sorry to say. It has just about every bad feature found on fakes, likely before they even tried hard to copy them. Put it on the wall as a reminder that the next one will be better. Btw, visited Porto many years ago. What a beautiful city,

Not just fake..VERY fake. Not even remotely close to the real thing, sorry.

With the nagako cleaned, this isn't worth anywhere near $1K. probably less than $500. They wiped out many hundreds of $'s value when they did that.

Thank you Sam, appreciate it.

Guys, I NEED you all to dial it back, and respect each other's opinions. I see too much antagonism in this thread, and really don't want to lock it. I've been in hospital for 2 days, and likely going back again for a bit, so can't be worrying about you guys at each other's throats. Just respect each other's opinions and act like adults. We've had some excellent intellectual discussion lately, so let's not ruin that, and I can't worry about babysitting this thread. Please respect and listen to the moderators, they have my permission to do anything necessary. I'd appreciate some respect for each other's opinions and way of collecting.

Same here!

This is Marto Spain. Have seen them before. Basically one step up from Chinese wallhangers. Not for using though.

Afraid this is a modern Chinese wallhanger, not a Japanese sword