Brian

I own many very good quality Keris. They are hardly termed "fighting knives" although they could be used as such. But the hilts on them were not designed to be free rotating. The rotation comes from a loose fit, or incorrect fitting. They are usually fairly firmly fitted. Not sure why you think the asymmetrical grind is so relevant here. It's not made to any traditional pattern, and I still see a tourist market product here. The handle is small industrial production, on a lathe. Likely a small operation. None of this points to anything aside from small scale production in a small factory shop. I am not sure if you know the huge knife market coming out of Japan in the 70's onwards. Literally tens of thousands of knives being made for the Western market. Boot knives and fighting knives were prevalent. This could have been made at any time, except wartime. I think you're overthinking cultural and political influences on this. As you well know, collecting African and Eastern edged weapons, the market is flooded with various designs that are not 100% traditional, for the ever growing tourist market. The fact that no similar knives are known to militaria collectors anywhere, shows that this was small scale or tiny factory production not made for combat use. I still suspect this is a reshaped blade from a larger piece, that has been repurposed into something tactical. But likely we will never know. Perhaps post it on Viking Swords or Bladeforums and ask Bernard Levine too.

The "Shangahi Dagger" was the precursor to the FS, and is entirely unlike this item. The 'X-Dagger' is well researched and completely different. There is no relation between them. I see no reason to assume this is wartime production for many reasons. There is no record of any Japanese factories making fighting knives for anyone during that time. I come across boxes of assorted knives with various shapes, sizes and non-standard features in my knife dealings. The country of origin markings don't apply to any of them, since they were never commercial imports, but picked up in native markets and brought back by people visiting the East. I suspect you'll find stuff like this in the markets of many countries if you had visited way back. The hilt is a simple turned one, easy to make, and likely done in a small factory turning out souvenirs. No serious fighting knife would have the handle able to turn in the hand. And a wartime made item is unlikely to have had a factory stamp, and to supply whom? Philippines production is possible. So is Thailand, Malaysia etc. Why it has a Japanese stamp, I do not know. As mentioned, could easily be a 1950's Japanese made knife for small scale distribution to tourists or visitors. Or a repurposed blade for something reshaped and fitted with that hilt. Another possibility is Brazilian manufacture...it resembles some of the hilts on knives from there made locally, and since there was a huge Japanese population, that could explain the markings.

Awesome, huge thanks Marius and the winner! Really appreciate it, and timing is great since got hit with an unexpected $400 hosting bill yesterday. Apologies for the downtime

Please start a new topic in the translation section, will delete this one shortly. Also, edit the pic, right way up, then save and upload. Will keep it the right way up...right now it's upside down.

As Jean said, the smith's name is cut off, so getting more than that is going to be difficult. All you have there is the province and town.. made in Bizen province, Osafune town, and a very little of the smiths first part of his name. Very common signature to start with. Rust removal is a serious no-no, even if it means being unable to remove the habaki. Red rust is stabilized. Black rust is left alone. Removing the rust will cost you half the value of the sword. In this case, it least it isn't cleaned down to silver metal. I would do no more than covering with a soft cloth and lightly tapping with a piece of wood or rubber, to have removed loose flakes. NO more than that. Nothing abrasive. Being able to read a mei is secondary to leaving the original patina on a nakago.

Indeed. Do people think that makers purchased milled billets of material to machine down on their fancy milling machines before they started work on them? Ford has shown how blanks were cast, before they started work on the tsuba. Showing how soft metal tsuba were cast really does add nothing to this original topic.

Nothing to do with the Shanghai dagger. I collect FS quite seriously, and any resemblance here is purely co-incidental. I don't see anything here arguing for wartime production. There are literally thousands of assorted knives made for commercial sale in the 50's and 60's from small factories. I suspect the handle was a later addition, likely the original one perished and was replaced by a simple turned one. Has a newer look to it. Certainly nothing that was ever made in any great quantity or used in any official capacity. Could have been made by any small Japanese maker making for the export market in the 50's. There was a prolific market back then, which was later capitalized on by people like Pete Gerber, Al Mar, Kershaw and others.

I'd say in this (rare) case, the blade predates the bone fittings, and is a genuine Nihonto, remounted later. I would actually take it out of those, which don't do it justice, and put it into shirasaya.

Tsuba were made by completely different people to the makers of the sword. Unrelated. You need to take off the handle and let's see what is on the nakago (tang)

Exactly why I suggested files. Rasps remove too much material fast. Since I expect he only needs to relieve a fraction of a mm, files will prevent him removing too much material and take it much slower. Plus mid sized needle files are cheap and easy to use, and come in many shapes.

Big fan of these myself. Have a small collection. Some very rare ones there.

I assume it is just the tsuka, not the saya that is tight? Personally, I think this is a fairly easy job for someone who is handy. Long thin files, working very slowly and removing very little at a time. No sandpaper, just files. Careful examinations should tell you if you need to remove a bit front to back, or if the sides are the problem. Just a few light strokes may find a high spot that is the main problem. But don't do this if you are not used to working with your hands and files.

Modern Chinese wallhanger

Yes, we have to get used to the fact that when we say "arsenal" or "machine made" or Showato etc etc, we mean not 100% traditionally made, and likely oil quenched. They were still made by a smith, could be forged and hammered (power or otherwise) but not considered Gendaito. Handmade? You could say that. But on a mass production and fast basis, and oil quenched. When we say Gendaito, it used tamahagane, and was water quenched. Excluding those odd swords that fall somewhere in the middle. But this one is oil quenched, and the stamp is a clear indicator that it is not a Gendaito, whether it would paper or not.

Your problem with the above is that it takes an incredible amount of knowledge and research before you can even describe the details in a sword, so how do you look up those features in a table and find the smith? Even advanced collectors can't agree on hada...whether something is konuka or nashiji or muji or whatever....even lots of debate deciding if hada is ko-mokume or itame or how much itame is considered a kantei point. Then you need to know exactly what hataraki you are looking at. Can you identify inazuma, chikei, sunagashi, kinsuji, uchinoke etc? Are you able to identify a complex hamon pattern? Do you know your toran from your togari from your choji or hakko or midare or....? Are you able to kantei an era based on shape of the sword? You can't get very far until you can do that, in conjunction with nakago patina and shape. You can't look up a smith until you have become some what of an expert in identifying all of these features, otherwise how do you look them up? And if you know all of those, then you are likely halfway towards being able to kantei a blade anyways. See the problem? You can't use an app unless you already know enough that you probably don't need an app. And then you'll find that general kantei points vary wildly with the same smith anyways. They didn't follow rules every time. And are you prepared to capture the kantei points of tens of thousands of smiths? Because there are more than that. Hate to say it, but most of us (myself included) aren't even capable of properly 'reading' a sword's features accurately, so looking it up is a wild shot in the dark at best. If it was simple, the "app" would exist already and shinsa panels would be working off a spreadsheet themselves, instead of sitting with dozens of old books and pictures comparing mei and features and eras.

Modern junk imho

Showing even more reason why I don't collect these. Would have fooled me every time

Awesome pics, well done.

Wow..what a steal.

For the nakago, IF you must prevent red rust, put a drop or 2 on your fingertips, and lightly massage it onto the nakago. One or 2 drops is more than enough. Some say do nothing, but sometimes I feel the nakago can use just a little oil.

Look in the downloads section. Darcy's excellent artice on photographing Nihonto is there. Best article on the subject anywhere.

That was my thought as well.

I think whatever he has on his back...he's hiding under it and popping up out of it to catch whatever he's hunting.

You need to understand that false signatures of famous makers was EXTREMELY common throughout the history of Japanese swords. Some say there are more false signatures than real ones. It was common to sign a sword with a different maker's signature to elevate the status of it. Doesn't mean the sword is fake or is bad quality. But due to this, any sword with a big name needs to be inspected carefully and sometimes put through a Japan shinsa process to see if the signature passes. If not, it's called 'gimei' and that means you have a sword by an unknown smith. No-one can say for sure if your tanto is by the smith on the tang. That is up to professionals to analyze. But because he's a big name, it's worth showing it to a few experts, and maybe considering a restoration. Without knowing for sure if the signature is genuine or not, it's hard to date it. But likely anywhere from 125-300 years old.

Couldn't agree more. As one of the primary countries where illegal ivory is sourced, the bans have created MORE demand, not less. And aside from rhino horn poaching which has vastly overtaken ivory poaching, it is happening on a daily basis, in spite of millions of $'s being spent on security. Govt, police and high level syndicates are involved, and the ban has done ZERO to prevent the poaching and trade. My personal (controversial) opinion is that govts sitting with thousands of tons of stockpiled ivory should FLOOD the market with ivory that is already in stockpiles, and drive the prices down so much, that there is no incentive for poaching. No-one will poach elephants if the prices are cheap. The supply in Africa of already poached ivory is vast, and could kill the trade in illegal ivory. Nothing else has worked.