Brian

This might explain it a bit more: http://militaria.co.za/nihontomessagebo ... php?t=1367 On the other hand..reading that..it may just confuse you more :D I think some people don't want anyone to see when they are online at the time, but have registered so that they can post when they need to. Guests can't post. Hmm..there is logic in there to it I guess. Still looking though :lol: Brian

Hi Tobias, Welcome to the forum. The How-To section should answer your questions. Make sure you fully upload the pics before hitting submit. Maybe they are over the file size limit? Check it all out here: http://www.militaria.co.za/nihontomessa ... um.php?f=8 Look forward to the pics. Brian

Oops..apologies. I should either get glasses or stop trying to read while my (work) boss is in the room :D Thanks for the clarification. Brian

Thank you all for turning this very educational. Interesting to see this blade turn up now all these years later for sale. I will have to study the Kiyomaru school shape closer. Surprised its history has not been mentioned, but as you all said, it is still a Kiyomaru. I wonder what caused the degradation that led to such an extensive restoration? Was this a sleeper that turned up in Japan unknown, or did it just suffer neglect. Hmm. So are we 100%sure this is the same blade? I am convinced, but would be good to know this for 100% certain. As a published blade, I guess a buyer would like to know its history. Perhaps this is why it is not mentioned on the Japanese sales site? Maybe its history is too well known there? Lots of questions, and some great info. I think Darcy called odd shape without even knowing its history. Good observation and a good insight into what we are studying towards Regards, Brian

I haven't given these stats before, but in the interests of explanation, here are some. So basically, my point is...Out of all those people who visit here every day/month, you want to let a very small minority irritate you to the point that you want to leave? C'mon Guido (and others) Other forums have this problem too..and have an "ignore" button where you don't even see certain member's posts anymore. I certainly don't think we need to go that far. In one thread you post some exceptionally interesting info on Kiyomaru and nengo, and the next one you want to exit gracefully? The same goes for SteveR. There are so many people reading and learning. It just seems to me to be (pardon the offense) but silly to let a tiny minority we don't see eye to eye with, influence us to this extent. Sometimes these forums get intense, agreed. So take a break for a week. Go outside and see the sun (something I never seem to do anymore) and then come back relaxed a bit. Those things you seem to have lost patience with...they are not as prolific as it may seem I hope. Small things build up, but they are not the majority of postings here and should not be our main focus. We can't just get fed up with 2 shinsa judges, and write off the whole shinsa process. We can't have a bad deal with 2 dealers and stop dealing with all of them. And I certainly hope we do not see a few posts that irritate us, and write off a whole forum. Stick around. Otherwise all that knowledge in your head is going to expand and make your head explode unless you let some of it out here Give it some thought (both of you?) Brian

Thank you Darcy for that excellent analysis and the well written note at the end. I am perhaps at fault for not stepping in sooner in this debate, and for that I apologise. I have been trying to come up with the best course of action to take, and have found it extremely difficult to choose a route to take. All I ask of the members is that they remain civil and polite. I think there are ways to say things, and perhaps better ways to do things. I do not want to be accused of running a forum dedicated to opinions. Most of this game is opinions...some more researched than others. But there are a mere handful of experts here, and many trying to advance their knowledge. We have to allow for opinions, and gently nudge them in the right direction in a way that makes it educational. We are all grown-ups too, and if one or 2 members disagrees with you, then hopefully you can look past that and remember that there are a few thousand readers who are not part of the debate. I have been put in my place on other forums, and felt very aggrieved. But once I realised that I was there for my own benefit to learn, I put it past me and chose to ignore it or learn from it. Tough game this. Taking a side alienates the other side, and vice versa. If I appear to be promoting a policy of neutrality or appeasement, it is because controversy does none of us any good. Please, let's respect each other and allow for personal differences without making it a board issue. There is much good info in this thread, which is why I didn't just delete the whole thing. To criticise the forum is sad, seeing that it is free and has good intentions. Rather work to improving it. Running away from it is also not very constructive, and does nothing to further the study of Nihonto. Darcy summed it up nicely when he said "Inbetween we can be reminded to keep our minds open in both directions and it'll help us all learn" Brian

Sorry..but that is pretty funny :D I am sure Lulu will correct it. So they are trying to introduce the younger generation to Nihonto? Very sneaky! :lol: Brian

Ok, I think this topic has been beaten to death already. Brian

(Raises hand) 2 Of them at the amazing Taibundo sale that Ichi took me to. Hence why I didn't comment on the thread. You can't appreciate a blade like this from mere photos and oshigata. As per any top class work of art, you have to see it in person to really appreciate it, as Guido has implied. Brian

Here is (was) my own hagire. I eventually traded the sword. Yes..both sides and very clear. Folks..less bickering and more civil discusion please. Everyone. We are all entitled to our opinions, and all are welcome. Brian

Whether tongue in cheek or not, Max has a point that the seller has a right to do what he wants with his sword. However we have just as much right (and duty) to at least recommend to him politely that he follows the correct course of action. From there it is up to him to do the right thing or not. In this case, at least the habaki is back where it should be. I know that there is more profit to be had from parting out a sword, but as long as we are dedicated to the preservation of Nihonto...we can work towards that goal and make suggestions. These should be polite and explanatory, and in some cases we will have successs. I hate to see this happen, but beyond suggestions all we can do is try and guide sellers in the best way possible. Brian

Good question Scott, I assume you are asking if old sword steel would be recycled back into forging new blades. I have heard of old sections of broken blades being used for umegane (to fill up opened fukure and flaws in a blade) and i assume given the chance, the steel would not have been wasted. Either the blade would have been reshaped to make it a shorter sword, or possibly the steel would have been smelted down to be re-used. Maybe someone has more info on this? I think an email to our resident apprentice in Japan, Pierre Nadeau, would be in order? Brian

Wow..I hadn't watched it yet when I posted that. That is an interesting video. I think it shows a Chinese forge, and is the equivalent of mass production on a small scale (if that makes sense ) These must be light years ahead of the regular Chinese junk. Doesn't appear to be tamahagane, and is not Nihonto...but very interesting to watch. That hammering machine he uses is also fun to watch. Brian

Don't forget the sticky post here: http://militaria.co.za/nihontomessagebo ... php?t=1339 There is a Nihonto video group run by Paul Martin here: http://www.youtube.com/group/nihonto Regards, Brian

Outstanding! I love stories like this. Especially for the fact that you have taken a blade that was perhaps written off by many people and might have become an amateur polishing project or a grass cutter, and have returned it to a state that will ensure it will be around for centuries to come. Excellent example of how we should never write off a blade until the experts have given their opinion. That reshaping of the kissaki is brilliantly done, and the boshi is still healthy. Great pics, and a great story. Nice sword too, and I don't think the ware should be a problem. This one has a nice story to it too. Congrats! Brian

We have just seen Bullpuppy sell a decent papered katana on eBay for $1800, and Stephen offering a great Emura for around that price, so there are definitely deals to be had around that amount. Let us know when you are ready, and I am sure someone will point you towards a decent deal. Until then, books and seeing good swords in person is the way to go. Regards, Brian

I see Bullpuppy's sword didn't go past the $1800 opening bid either. Pity..seems like it is a good time for buyers and not a great one for sellers currently. I need to improve my savings to be able to pick up good deals like these. Brian

Actually..I did the same thing before deciding on NobuMitsu :D But no matter how I turned my head, or squinted, I could not make those extra strokes I was looking for appear :D :lol: Perhaps you can take a clearer pic of the signature for us Julie? Just the name, not the longer date side. Regards, Brian

Name please? Try this link, I am not sure how up to date it is, but it should help a bit. http://satcho.com/calendar/ Regards, Brian

Hi Julie, Correct, it is not traditionally made. But I would not necessarily say poor quality (compared with worldwide military swords) No..it is not in the same league as a genuine forged, folded and tempered antique Nihonto, but it was still made and finished by a smith for the war effort. Btw..the price you paid is a bargain as an item of WW2 militaria. I would expect these to sell for $800 upwards to militaria collectors. Hopefully someone can verify or correct my swordsmith translation. Brian

Well...it appears everyone who is bidding is hoping it is Masazane. Not long to go. The seller is confident that it is not a hagire, so let's wish the high bidder good luck with it. Could be the sleeper of the year, or just a nice katana. Definitely the ebay Nihonto auction of the year Can't say I would spend that much online without having it in hand, but apparently there are many who hope for the prize, enough to spend big $'s. Good luck to the seller and the winner Brian

I get May 1944 as the date, and the maker (my guess) is NobuMitsu? WW2 manufactured 1944 pattern shin-gunto sword, confirmed by the use of the 2 mekugi (pins to hold the handle on) See here: http://www.geocities.com/alchemyst/military.htm Please sign with a name when posting. Here are the pics slightly enhanced. Thanks, Brian

Simon, agree with you 100%. But until Gendaito and Showato become fixed, finite and defined terms (which will never happen) then I guess we will never see the issue resolved. So for now, it makes life easier, but can't be relied upon. Convention isn't law unfortunately Brian

Since the era is given as June 2007, and the machi are band new, I would think this is a shinsakuto that for some reason was not finished. Maybe they found something that made it not worth continuing the work. The shinogi would be that way before the final shape is realised through the togi process. At the current price, and given no fatal flaws, I think this is a steal that could be sent for a full polish. But more info is needed on who made it and why the process was halted. Consider it in the mid production stage Brian

Agreed, It is only a widely accepted practice among (Western) collectors to call traditionally made swords Gendaito, but it is not an official term as I understand it. There is no mention of handmade blade or hada or hataraki, so anytime you see this, expect something less until proven differently. I would't be too hard on the sellers, and let's not spend our waking moments looking for faults in listings unless there is deliberate deception or fraud. Good point though that you shouldn't see the word Gendaito and assume anything until you have asked further questions and seen more pics. Brian