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Piles of fake swords!


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#1 Bruce Pennington

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Posted 16 February 2020 - 05:18 AM

This is at a gem show in Tucson AZ : http://www.warrelics...-swords-758091/

CIMG0834.jpg CIMG0835.jpg
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#2 sbf

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Posted 16 February 2020 - 04:05 PM

Sad. I was at gun shows in the 70’s and 80’s where there were piles of swords like that, except they were real.

 

Steve


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#3 Denis V

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Posted 16 February 2020 - 09:16 PM

Indeed sad, but at least, these are clearly fake. No doubt about it, and even for less experienced people this could be rather obvious. It’s always terrible when they really put in the effort to mislead people.

 

Denis



#4 Leen

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Posted 18 February 2020 - 12:05 AM

I saw a fake (somewhat better than those shown here) on a dutch e-bay like site.

the sword is presented as a real sword in a higher price range. I could’nt help myself and asked for the mei on this fantastic sword.

Guess what, still no answer


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#5 Peter Bleed

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Posted 19 February 2020 - 12:25 AM

I spend every Tuseday with a group of Arkansas knife makers. They have taught me a lot of about cutlery and craft. Today one of the fellows brought his collection of CHINESE Bowie knives They are all EXCELLENT copies of historic Bowie knives and they are simply terrific. They are not longer being made, but these were accurate repros of authentic historic  knives. They were nicely boxed up and clearly marked with the maker's name an "Made in China." Apparently they have become rather collectible among Bowie collectors.

So, if their Bowies are "good", why are the Chinese copies of Japanese swords so crappy?

Peter


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#6 Smee78

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Posted 19 February 2020 - 02:08 AM

Wow, that is amazing that they just throw them in a pile and say "here we go" ???


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Attempting to collect Type 95 NCO swords


#7 Shamsy

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Posted 19 February 2020 - 03:08 AM

I like that the knives were marked as Chinese made. There's nothing wrong with a reproduction item, provided it is not misrepresented for what it is.

As to why 95 are still crappy copies for the most part? I'd assume because a seemingly basic topic is actually much more in depth than people realise, not to mention the likelihood that there are a lot for references for knives than 95s. I suppose additionally, knives are still practical and serve a purpose. Swords are neither.
Steve
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#8 Bruce Pennington

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Posted 19 February 2020 - 03:32 AM

I've seen some Chinese items, mostly NCO leather tassels, advertised as reproductions. I want to say I've even seen gunto sold as reproductions. They usually start with "hand-made". It's the guys in the States that have gotten them and are re-selling as legit that are really causing most of the problems.
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#9 PNSSHOGUN

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Posted 19 February 2020 - 08:44 AM

The Hanwei Gunto were true reproductions, nothing out of China has come close to those.

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#10 Shamsy

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Posted 19 February 2020 - 10:22 AM

I thought Hanwei was Chinese
Steve
Collecting Type 95 NCO swords

#11 16k

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Posted 19 February 2020 - 11:40 AM

I spend every Tuseday with a group of Arkansas knife makers. They have taught me a lot of about cutlery and craft. Today one of the fellows brought his collection of CHINESE Bowie knives They are all EXCELLENT copies of historic Bowie knives and they are simply terrific. They are not longer being made, but these were accurate repros of authentic historic  knives. They were nicely boxed up and clearly marked with the maker's name an "Made in China." Apparently they have become rather collectible among Bowie collectors.

So, if their Bowies are "good", why are the Chinese copies of Japanese swords so crappy?

Peter

I would truly disagree that Chinese swords are bad. Yes, they aren't accurate copies and if you know a bit about Nihonto, you spot them easy. Bu

t for the layman, they aren't so easy to make out, proof being the numerous threads that florish on this board to ask whether such or such sword is genuine.

 

Actually, I consider Chinese swords excellent for their purpose. They are aimed at martial artists or collectors on a budget that want something close to the real deal without having to spend a fortune. Some are quite good and beautiful and although devoid of historical value, they aren't worse in their quality or construction than a vintage sword. They have a market and they are designed for that market.

 

Now, the real issue isn't crappiness or reproduction, but the unscrupulous attitude of some sellers that try to pass them for what they aren't. But in terms of quality, never forget places such as Lonquan have been forging for centuries. It may be on an industrial scale, but what production isn't industrial these days? Showato were industrial too, disliked by many collectors for that, but it never prevented them to find their place in history and their collector's niche too. I wouldn't be surprised it one day, Chinese Katana get more respect too. Granted, it will take a verrrrrrry long time before we see that.


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#12 PNSSHOGUN

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Posted 19 February 2020 - 12:05 PM

I thought Hanwei was Chinese

It is, while not perfect it is a faithful reproduction and many parts are difficult to tell from originals. The blades themselves are also of very high quality, it's the sword I would go for if something went bump in the night. 


John


#13 Peter Bleed

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Posted 19 February 2020 - 07:35 PM

This is turning into a rather interesting discussion.

Of course "Chinese" operations can produce good stuff - including fine cutlery.

The Hanwei com[nay made and marketed good reproductions that speak to collector interest in good old weapons. The attached snap shot shows a bunch of repro Bowie knives that are good enough to please modern guys who want to dress up like frontiersmen (OMG!). Apparently Hanwei also producded Japanese style swords that speak to the needs of modern guys who want to dress up and swing swords.

As usual, there is no explaining taste, but this all seem laudable.We live in a Libertarian era.

What seems serious to me is the sale of poorly made swords that are not clearly identified as modern repros. These swords are hurting serious interest in Japanese swords.

What can we do - - -  nothing beyond pursuing serious interest.

Peter

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  • Hanwei Collection Historic knives, 2-18-20.JPG

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Peter Bleed

#14 16k

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Posted 19 February 2020 - 07:59 PM

In fact, what is the most harmful I think is the number of swords sold for a few bucks and which have welded rat tails as a nakago. Those stuff are nightmarishly dangerous and so cheap that kids can buy them and get seriously hurt. And of course, there’s also tha shady practice of selling 1045 steel swords claiming they’re L6 Bainite, but all in all, I’ve found that the best cutters, closest to the real deal, are actually 1060. They’re just hard enough to cut well and soft enough not to shatter.

 

Once we’ve thrown aside the unscrupulous dealers, I think that the remaining ones can produce good stuff. Hanwei has been mentioned, but I’ve seen swords by a brand called YariNoHanzo that make some really good stuff too. Of course, we’re veering from the original intent of this thread.

 

Truth is, as long as there is a market, there will be people taking advantage of others. You’ve just got not to go blindly and know what you actually buy.


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