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Attention Mantetsu Owners: A Survey


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#61 BANGBANGSAN

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Posted 14 October 2018 - 06:47 AM

Trystan,

You're killin' me man!!! 1 - that you have so MANY Mantetsu!, and 2 - that you made me translate all those dates and numbers!!! HA! It was good practice, though.

So new developements:

We now have TWO consecutive numbers Ku 326 and Ku 327 in 1942 - we would hope to see that; and ALL 6 of our '44 numbers are 4-digit numbers. (thanks to DaveR, who pointed out one of my numbers "243" was really "1143".) (oh, and one of my 4-digits were transposed)

I've updated the chart and attached.

Bruce

I'm sorry ,I thought you already know all the Kanji numbers & have the date base for the years...

I would translate for you if I knew it will take you awhile to do it.

1. 昭和甲申春(1944 Spring)滿鐵鍛造之       セSe 二五七五2575 (Type 3 Mount)
2. 昭和壬午秋(1942 Autumn) 興亚一心 滿鐵作   ヤYa 七九79
3. 昭和葵末春(1943 Spring) 滿鐵鍛造之        エE 三六七367
4. 昭和壬午秋(1942 Autumn) 興亞一心 滿鐵作   クKu 三二七327(With leather cover)
5. 昭和壬午春(1942Spring) 興亞一心 滿鐵謹作 ウU 九九99
6. 昭和葵末春(1943 Spring)  滿鐵鍛造之        メMe 八七87
My Other 2 at my friend's place that I posted before
1.昭和甲申春(1944 Spring) 滿鐵鍛造之        セSe 一0六六1066(Type 3 Mount)
2.昭和甲申春(1944 Spring) 興亞一心 滿鐵作  (イ)I 一六四四1644(Wavy Hamon)

Trystan


#62 Bruce Pennington

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Posted 15 October 2018 - 05:25 PM

Thanks Trystan! I had already translated them, but with your post I was able to double-check my work, I appreciate it.

#63 Bruce Pennington

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Posted 15 October 2018 - 05:35 PM

Hi Bruce, 
  I have a Koa Isshin dated Fall 1939.  The back of the nakago has the character "ni"  then then a space and the Japanese numbers "190"
 
 
       Hope this helps your research,  Tom Maurer   (rebcannonshooter)


Tom,

After seeing Trystan's batch of Mantetsu, 2 of his have flat nakago mune (Spg '44 SE 2575, and Spg '44 SE 1066). So my idea of it being a very early style just went out the window!

#64 BANGBANGSAN

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Posted 15 October 2018 - 10:39 PM

Tom,

After seeing Trystan's batch of Mantetsu, 2 of his have flat nakago mune (Spg '44 SE 2575, and Spg '44 SE 1066). So my idea of it being a very early style just went out the window!

Thoes 2 with  flat nakago mune were all in late war Type 3 mount.


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Trystan


#65 BANGBANGSAN

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Posted 15 October 2018 - 10:45 PM

Bruce

Bill's late war type 3 Spg '44 Mnatetsu(Se 一一四三1143) also flat nakago mune. And Another Late war Type 3 Spg '44 Mantetsu (スSu 二一九)219 )I found out has same  flat nakago mune as well.

So,I guess maybe the flat nakago mune was only for Mantetsu in  late war Type 3 mount?

Attached Thumbnails

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Trystan


#66 Bruce Pennington

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Posted 15 October 2018 - 11:49 PM

Yes, it definitely looks that way. Thanks for spotting that!

#67 Bruce Pennington

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Posted 16 October 2018 - 06:02 PM

Update:

Another unexpected development! I started finding serial numbers marked with kanji that didn't fit the katakana very well. Turns out they are HIRAGANA!! The Japanese-fluent will have to forgive me, but I didn't even know about hiragana. As it was explained to me, katakana are for "foreign" sounds, while hiragana are Japanese sounds. Hiragana are recognizable (to me) in that they appear to be written in a fluid "script" like style, while the katakana are blocky "print" style, in English terms.

I've included a picture of one. It's a hiragana "To", which has a resemblance to the katakana "To". I'm not sure how this affects my efforts to identify a methodological pattern to the numbering of blades. We will see .....

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  • 20181015_104503.jpg

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#68 PNSSHOGUN

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Posted 18 October 2018 - 12:23 PM

Here's another for you Bruce, Mantetsu, Spring of 43' I believe. It has the Nanman stamp & your favourite mysterious "W" stamp as well.

44199804_2275537549335135_8164042761595518976_n.jpg 44219128_1856536521060610_7955416151121461248_n.jpg 44319293_2156624021255541_6435699311245262848_n.jpg 44225860_1991576490879975_2313741338106920960_n.jpg


John


#69 Bruce Pennington

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Posted 18 October 2018 - 04:14 PM

Thanks John, that's a nice one! This "Sa 520" number is close to another I have listed, "Sa 459" and it carries the "Nan" stamp too.

I'm attached my updated chart for anyone following.

Attached Files


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#70 Stephen

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Posted 23 October 2018 - 09:51 PM

Bruce dont know if you have this or not.

http://artswords.com...unto_090718.htm

                         Stephen C. USMC DEC 63 APR 73

                                   Don't Tread on Me!


#71 Bruce Pennington

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Posted 23 October 2018 - 11:57 PM

Bruce dont know if you have this or not.

http://artswords.com...unto_090718.htm


Thanks Stephen, I don’t have that one. He doesn’t show the serial number so I sent him an email requesting it.

#72 Stephen

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Posted 24 October 2018 - 12:00 AM

DSCN0341.jpg


                         Stephen C. USMC DEC 63 APR 73

                                   Don't Tread on Me!


#73 Bruce Pennington

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Posted 24 October 2018 - 01:54 AM

Well, guess I actually DID have that one, but thanks for the tip! I must have gotten it from another source because I definitely didn’t recognize that dealer posting.

#74 BANGBANGSAN

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Posted 24 October 2018 - 07:59 AM

Well, guess I actually DID have that one, but thanks for the tip! I must have gotten it from another source because I definitely didn’t recognize that dealer posting.

 

Thanks Stephen, I don’t have that one. He doesn’t show the serial number so I sent him an email requesting it.

I did sent you Bill's late war Mantetsu ser#  though :)


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Trystan


#75 Bruce Pennington

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Posted 01 November 2018 - 09:32 PM

A quick update on the tabulations. I've added tracking for seasons on the dates - Spring, Summer, Autumn, and Winter. Amazingly, out of 70 blades, 60 are "Spring"!!! I have NO speculation as to the reason.

More than half of the years are in the '41-'43 range (44 of them). One might expect that as the USA entered the war Dec '41. Blades made before that could have a higher chance of serving in China/Asia and ending up in Chinese hands. Still puzzled by the total absence of '45 blades.

I greatly appreciate the tips coming in from you guys on blades I haven't seen yet!

Updated charts attached.

Attached Files



#76 Stephen

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Posted 02 November 2018 - 01:24 AM

Spring water my friend spring water for tempering.


                         Stephen C. USMC DEC 63 APR 73

                                   Don't Tread on Me!


#77 Stephen

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Posted 02 November 2018 - 01:27 AM

one for sale at decent price

 

https://www.facebook...158520811135790


                         Stephen C. USMC DEC 63 APR 73

                                   Don't Tread on Me!


#78 PNSSHOGUN

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Posted 02 November 2018 - 02:22 AM

Spring is a traditionally Auspicious time for forging.


John


#79 Bruce Pennington

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Posted 02 November 2018 - 10:47 AM

one for sale at decent price
 
https://www.facebook...158520811135790


Stephen, my FB is shut down for a while. Do you think you could ask the guy for the full date and serial number?

#80 Bruce Pennington

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Posted 02 November 2018 - 10:49 AM

Spring is a traditionally Auspicious time for forging.


I see, but it still doesn’t jive with the claims that the factory was cranking out 400 blades per month.

#81 Bruce Pennington

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Posted 04 November 2018 - 01:23 AM

Many thanks to Jon (PNSSHOGUN), for a great link that had 4 Mantetsu for sale ( Japanese site, double USA prices). One of them had the assembly numbers matching the seppa, stamped on the nakago!
“278” “W”6B4A1DD3-4EE2-4609-AB2C-0D62E4503A2E.png

#82 BANGBANGSAN

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Posted 04 November 2018 - 08:26 PM

:laughing:


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Trystan


#83 Mark

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Posted 06 November 2018 - 03:32 AM

i just listed one on ebay. you can check it out and get what you need, if i did not show what you need let me know  nixe@bright.net

https://www.ebay.com...984.m1555.l2649


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#84 Bruce Pennington

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Posted 06 November 2018 - 06:49 AM

Excellent one Mark! Thanks a lot!

i just listed one on ebay. you can check it out and get what you need, if i did not show what you need let me know nixe@bright.net
https://www.ebay.com...984.m1555.l2649



#85 Bruce Pennington

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Posted 12 November 2018 - 06:20 PM

Ok, a MAJOR discovery! It's discussed in full on this thread http://www.militaria...essei-mantetsu/, but I want to add it here as someone may only come across this thread in a google search.

I have found a Spring 1945 Mantetsu blade with a different slogan "Kou-nan Issei". It isn't marked with the usual Mantetsu made this logo, but the workmanship, kanji style, and mune serial number all say "MANTETSU". The owner also has info/evidence that this was made for only "a few" upper level commanders toward the end of the war. I'm writing to him about that evidence. Hopefully he'll let us know.

The serial number is unusual in that it has both a hiragana and katakana kanji before the number "22".
It is "I Na 22"Mantetsu Konan Issei, Spring  1945.jpg SERIAL NUMBER.jpg

I've attached an updated chart of the collected numbers (over 80 now).

Attached Files


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#86 Bruce Pennington

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Posted 14 November 2018 - 04:52 PM

Since this is turning into a broader study of the Mantetsu, I'm including a link to a discussion of a Mantetsu wak. It looks original, as the nakago and kanji don't look cut down. Dated Autumn '40. PM'd Ed to see if he has the serial number.

http://www.militaria...etsu-wakizashi/

#87 Bruce Pennington

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Posted 15 November 2018 - 10:14 PM

Since this is turning into a broader study of the Mantetsu, I'm including a link to a discussion of a Mantetsu wak. It looks original, as the nakago and kanji don't look cut down. Dated Autumn '40. PM'd Ed to see if he has the serial number.

http://www.militaria...etsu-wakizashi/

Here's the pics of Ed's wak, dated Autumn '40, serial Wa 33. 21" nagasa. Don't have pics of the actual wak.

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#88 Bruce Pennington

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Posted 17 November 2018 - 10:35 AM

Something interesting. Found this 2008 discussion on Gunboards about the progression of the Mantetsu mei:Screenshot_20181117-005105.jpg

Though, even this is not hard & fast, as I have recorded a 1944 Koa Isshin blade (Spring '44; "I" 1644 in Type 3 mounts). I would more likely accept the start date of each mei, but leave the end date more broadly open.
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#89 rebcannonshooter

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Posted 19 November 2018 - 05:55 PM

Good Morning Bruce, 

   Just FYI there's an odd 1939 Koa isshin for sale on Ebay.  The nakago is squared off and it has two mekugi ana ?? The ebay number is 323558019109.

    

Good luck on your Mantetsu research,  Tom Maurer


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#90 vajo

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Posted 19 November 2018 - 06:03 PM

It looks not bad for me. It's shorten (suriage) to fit a shorter Tsuka?

 

Could be a early sword with a nice polish. I think this will be go for a higher price.






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