Authentic?

[William Jennings]

This sword was brought back by a friends grandpa after the war. Thoughts on its authenticity? 

[ChrisW]

Authentic. Nice THICK gunto tsuba... those are pretty rare. Full ito wrap speaks to someone of rank. Lastly, the blade appears to be pre-war at the very least. However, the condition is not particularly great. A candidate to get a window done perhaps?

[William Jennings]

@ChrisW really? I told him I thought it was a Chinese knockoff. You really think it’s legit? 

[cluckdaddy76]

I am not a military collector but do have one WWII blade in shirasaya with the koshirae separate. I do have one of the openwork style tsuba with mine, I will say the one in this pic does not exactly look like the one I have.  I would need better pics of just the tsuba alone to comment more as pics can be tough to judge from alone. This post may be better answered in the military section, there are many knowledgeable collectors who will give you excellent information.

 

Jason

[ChrisW]

16 minutes ago, William Jennings said:

@ChrisW really? I told him I thought it was a Chinese knockoff. You really think it’s legit? 

I'd need a closer look at it, but I am pretty sure its a legitimate item. I've seen thick gunto tsuba like that before, they're pretty rare and usually made for a blade from someone of consequence.

[Scogg]

We’ll need more photos to make an informed assessment. Please use a dark, non-reflective background. Helpful images would include: a full length shot of the sugata taken straight from above, close ups of the munemachi and hamachi, and clear photos of both sides of the nakago. As mentioned above, some detailed shots of the tsuba would also be useful. If genuine, it may or may not have a stamp somewhere around the ana. 

 

With some more photos, I can relocate the thread to the appropriate section whether that’s here, the military section, or the fake section.

Regards,

-Sam

 

 

[Bryce]

G'day Guys,

That does not look legit to me.

Cheers,

Bryce

 

[John C]

I too thought it was not legit on first instinct. The kissaki looks like the wrong shape and the tsuba, while fat, looks too fat and does not have the right shape. There should be more of an angle from the flat center of the mimi to the edge. But never say never with military swords.....

 

John C.

[PNSSHOGUN]

If you can confirm it was brought back from WWII then it may have been made in a Japanese occupied territory. 

[lonely panet]

I wouldn't touch it.

3 points i dont like. 

 

I'm calling it a good fake

[Scogg]

The dimensions of the tsuba look funky to me; the circumference seems small.
 

The drilled mekugi ana seems unusually placed. 

 

The kobutogane has some extra material around the ana for the sarute that I’m not familiar with seeing. 
 

All that being said, I’d still like to see more photos… You do see some weird stuff sometimes with WW2 swords. 
 

 I’ll relocate the thread to the military section for some more eyes. We can always move it again if needed. 

Sincerely,

-Sam 
 

 

[PNSSHOGUN]

The extra material around the Sarute looks to be based off a particular style of mounts often found on Koa Isshin Mantetsu swords: 

 

https://www.artswords.com/Mint_Imperial_Japanese_Generals_Gunto_Mounted_Katana_020308.htm

 

[Rivkin]

Little is seen regarding the blade but this particular narrow wide periodic gunome with visible yet uneven "nioiguchi" can be XXth century lower grade work. Japanese. Strange that it still needed very drastic nakago work, and there are other things which are a tad off. So yes, original Japanese parts, but how did they come together is something I am puzzled to say.

[BANGBANGSAN]

It’s a 偽軍刀 (a sword for the puppet army) that was made in China during World War II.

[Bruce Pennington]

I'd go with Kirill and Trystan on this.  Among many things, the tsuba is all wrong.  It should be shaped like this:

 

Not Japanese made.  However if the guy is certain on the history, it was likely made, like Trystan said.

[Kiipu]

John & Trystan are correct.  Take a look at the plum blossoms on the crossguard.  It is World War II Chinese collaboration sword.

 

Many thanks for sharing the pictures of a really interesting sword variant.

[Bryce]

G'day Guys,

OK, so it is still a Chinese knock-off of a Japanese gunto, but it may have been made around the time of the war (or not).

Cheers,

Bryce

 

 

 

[Bruce Pennington]

3 hours ago, Bryce said:

G'day Guys,

OK, so it is still a Chinese knock-off of a Japanese gunto, but it may have been made around the time of the war (or not).

Cheers,

Bryce

 

 

 

Well, we use "knock off" in a negative way.  When this sword was made (assuming we are right about it being made for collaboration forces), it was an honest attempt by a non-Japanese sword smith to make a real weapon for a real collaboration officer that was inline with the Japanese Army.  So, yes, it was a a best-effort at making a sword in the image of the Japanese army gunto.