Iron “horse” tsuba. All opinions welcome!

[Matsunoki]

Hello yet again from the UK.

Please can you enlighten me? (Oh no not him again I hear you sigh🙂)
I’ve tried on the internet but no luck. I acquired it because I thought the subject was very “samurai” (daft thing to say) and also quite elegant and well conceived. 

I’m trying to convince myself that it’s not cast (can’t see any casting seams anywhere). It looks as if it’s been on several swords and has quite some signs of some age….lots of wear on the seppadai.  Delicate engraving to the mane and tail is very worn. Very dark even patina. Kozuka and Kogai ana both the same…..
There is a ghost of a signature.

H 7.0cm W 6.8cm ie wakizashi sized.

Thanks to you all.

Best wishes. Colin

 

[Dan tsuba]

Hello Colin!

 

Now that is my kind of tsuba!  Old and rusted!  I really like it!

 

My opinion is that it is hand forged and hand worked (although for me it is really difficult to tell – could it be cast – I don’t know!  But my first thought is no - not cast).  I really like the bottom of the mimi where it is worked to look like a rope tied to the horse.

 

Also, from my limited expierence, I have found it rare that both hitsu-ana are the same shape!

 

It also looks like one of the hitsu-ana has been repaired?

 

I have no knowledge of the mei.  I am certain that other members will help you out with that!

 

 

With respect,

Dan

[Infinite_Wisdumb]

[rematron]

This is a job for @Spartancrest!

[Dan tsuba]

Jesse,

 

Very funny!  Great sense of humor!  I really enjoyed the picture on your post! 

 

With respect,

Dan

[kissakai]

One I used to own was Choshu circa 1750

70 x 68 x 4.8mm

Mine has the same hitsuana but in better condition

I think someone may have a go at the mei

 

[Spartancrest]

Ok ,ok - how many do you want?

 

 

https://varshavskycollection.com/collection/tsu-0251/   this site has three examples

 

https://www.bada.org/object/Japanese-openwork-bushi-tsuba-iron-sword-guard-depicting-bridled-horse-finely-worked-mane 

a good write up in the description of this sold version.

 

https://www.espace4.com/en/collections/an-iron-kawarigata-tsuba-horse-at-rest/   in my opinion this one was way over priced.

 

https://www.lot-art.com/auction-lots/Very-Cool-19th-C-Japanese-Samurai-Sword-Tsuba-Signed/82-very_cool-29.8.20-sofe

 

https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/Japanese-samurai-sword-tsuba-horse-159831877  definitely CAST with painted 'highlights' Missing a leg or "is he just happy to see you?"

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/325426008046

 

Literature: G D Murtha, 'Tsuba: Japanese Sword Guards', pp16 & 17, for a similar example.

 

You will find a great number of these also have broken 'ropes' at the bottom of the guard.  

I will get back with more if you like - - after I have had my breakfast 

 

PS. The one you are looking at is Cast - just check the over-runs of metal along the rope edge.

[rematron]

Thanks Dale!  My only clue was the graininess but I wasn't sure if that was from casting or corrosion.  Do you think the horse's mane was carved after the casting?  That's another detail that threw me off because of the detail. 

[Spartancrest]

I think many have been re-worked - it makes guessing if they were cast or not very difficult. I have re-worked a few myself to get rid of the casting seams etc. but it is time consuming if you want to do a good job - time is money so a lot of otherwise well cast pieces were not finished.

Some other examples in the Metropolitan and Toledo museums.

https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/26369?ft=tsuba+horse&offset=0&rpp=40&pos=7  one of their few with image restrictions.

 

Toledo Museum of Art - "Yamashiro (Kyo) School" Mid - 18th century

 

 

This one used to belong to" The world travel collection of artworks of Archduke Franz Ferdinand of Austria" - who's death sparked the first world war.  [Gold plated bridle]

[Spartancrest]

One of those with a broken rope I mentioned earlier. It did look like an exceptional piece to start with. 

 

[Dan tsuba]

Hello all!

 

Spartancrest (Dale); your research, knowledge, and insights are truly amazing (just my opinion!). 

 

After reading this thread I have to get myself one of these Edo period “horse” type tsuba!  I will be on the “lookout” for one!

 

Now, whether the one I purchase will be hand forged and hand worked or cast iron or cast iron and hand worked is something I can only “guess” at!

 

I figure the only way to know for sure if the one I end up purchasing is hand forged or cast iron is if I spend the money to have it invasive or non-invasive metallurgically tested.  But I don't have the cash to have that done!

 

Or, I can just take a hammer to it and see if it “fractures” like in a picture of another cast iron tsuba shown in a previous thread (“An Edo period Cast Iron tsuba" thread), then I will know for sure!

 

But in the meantime, if I purchase a “horse” type tsuba, I will just enjoy my purchase and appreciate it!

 

That is why I only purchase “low cost” and “low end” tsuba.  If it is hand forged, great!  If it is cast iron and old (Edo period – as many of the pictures of the “horse” type tsuba posted are from that period) that is also great!

 

With respect,

Dan

 

 

[Spartancrest]

Dan to tell the truth I wouldn't mind one of the curled horses myself - I love irregular shaped guards [kawari-gata] - and I wouldn't care particularly if it was cast either, but I won't pay thousands for one.  

Nothing wrong with a bit of wear and tear on them either - adds to the character.

[Spartancrest]

I have to laugh at this one from Google. The link takes you to a "Naturally Healthy" [laxative?] site https://nutrimix.pe/?footer=prueba2304479.html

The same image also links to another site I can't get to open.

 

[Spartancrest]

13 hours ago, kissakai said:

Mine has the same hitsuana but in better condition

Grev can you post an image of your Choshu for us?  I think you also have one of these - [or was it only the double carp one?]

I almost forgot to mention the same horse design appears on one of the very few postage stamps in the world that have tsuba depicted on them. I am lucky enough also to have the first day cover from 1970.

 

[Matsunoki]

@Spartancrest…….brilliant Dale. You are so helpful.

My research skills are obviously pretty useless. I did try, I promise!….but got nowhere. I guess knowing where to look is  the key.

I will digest all of the above and make a few notes (can’t rely on memory)

…..but a sincere thank you for your time, knowledge and patience.

Until the next time…..not that far off🙂…..all the best.

Colin

[Kurikata]

Impossible to compete with Dale and his capacity to find any kind of tsuba but..... when we come to "Cheval" (Horse in French) we can find more exemples:

 

https://www.espace4.com/collections/tsuba-en-fer-kawarigata-cheval-paissant/

https://www.lot-art.com/auction-lots/Trois-tsuba-Le-fer-Periode-Edo-18e19e-siecle-Tous-de-forme-irreguliere-a-En-silhouette/723-troi_tsuba-25.6.21-lempertz

[kissakai]

Colin just keep looking but I have to reiterate the above post:

 

Impossible to compete with Dale and his capacity to find any kind of tsuba

My horse tsuba that has been sold

 

[Spartancrest]

Wow Grev that is the first one I have seen with the hair cut into the hooves. Great detailing. 

[Spartancrest]

16 hours ago, Infinite_Wisdumb said:

 

Keanu has a short 'Wick' these days!

[JohnTo]

These tsuba are fairly common and have turned up frequently in auctions over the years.  They also seem to have been made by different artists from a number of schools.  One of the first that I saw was from the R.B. Caldwell collection (Lot 24) in 1994 and was signed Heianjo Sadatsune, with a NBTHK Hozon certificate.  This was virtually identical to mine (Pic attached), but is signed Bushu ju ???.  The name was inscribed too indistinctly and is now unreadable!  Anyone know how to restore a feint signature like they do in forensic labs with the serial numbers on guns?

Anyway, mine is   Height: 6.95 cm.  Width: 6.5 cm.  Thickness (rim):  0.25 cm.  Weight: 82 g

 

Best regards, John

[Matsunoki]

1 hour ago, JohnTo said:

Anyone know how to restore a feint signature like they do in forensic labs with the serial numbers on guns?

Hello John

Looking at yours, the signature section in the right-hand side of the nakago ana is exactly the same as mine. Possibly also,the left hand side.

why not out put yours in the translation section…..I bet someone will confirm the right hand bit and maybe have a stab at the left?

Can I also see “YOSHI” on the left?

[ROKUJURO]

2 hours ago, JohnTo said:

......Anyone know how to restore a feint signature like they do in forensic labs with the serial numbers on guns?.....

John,

with an x-ray device experts can restore a ground-out serial number on a gun as this is stamped-in which causes structural changes in the metal. If - as I assume - your TSUBA's MEI was not chiselled but cast-in, I don't think that the above method would help. .

[Spartancrest]

One more to add to the list from the 'National Gallery of Victoria' [Australia] 

Sword guard with horse design

(Shinme zu tsuba 神馬図鍔)

Edo period

Artist name: Masatoshi

Medium iron, gilt, copper

Measurements 0.6 x 6.9 cm diameter

Place of Execution Bushū,

Accession Number 2265-D3

[kissakai]

Unusual for a museum to add useful information!

 

[Spartancrest]

Grev. I wish I could give a thumbs up and a Ha ha at the same time! 

I can send a Pdf copy of a book I did encompassing four Australian Museum collections 262 Pages - just PM.

[Spartancrest]

People should check this V&A example of the horse - https://collections.vam.ac.uk/item/O464603/tsuba/

image is copyright so I can't reproduce it here.  Top of the range!

 

And two 'run of the mill' - https://collections.vam.ac.uk/item/O466610/tsuba/     https://collections.vam.ac.uk/item/O466622/tsuba/

[Spartancrest]

These two are perhaps the worst quality you can find - just check the nakago-ana and lack of features on the horses heads.

https://www.jauce.com/auction/s1083922572

 

[Rodenbacher]

Bought this two years ago. Unsigned, very good iron definitely not cast. Unfortunately my camera can't show the true color of the iron. 

Peter

[MauroP]

On 2/22/2023 at 4:50 PM, JohnTo said:

These tsuba are fairly common and have turned up frequently in auctions over the years.  They also seem to have been made by different artists from a number of schools.  One of the first that I saw was from the R.B. Caldwell collection (Lot 24) in 1994 and was signed Heianjo Sadatsune, with a NBTHK Hozon certificate.  This was virtually identical to mine (Pic attached), but is signed Bushu ju ???.  The name was inscribed too indistinctly and is now unreadable!  Anyone know how to restore a feint signature like they do in forensic labs with the serial numbers on guns?

Anyway, mine is   Height: 6.95 cm.  Width: 6.5 cm.  Thickness (rim):  0.25 cm.  Weight: 82 g

 

Best regards, John

Maybe Bushū jū  Masakuni - 武州住 正國
 

[MauroP]

Not a great help from NBTHK:

Bushū (obvious)

 

den Kanayama (?)

 

Futagoyama (?)