tachi mount

[Ian B3HR2UH]

I came across photographs of a very fine tachi mount that I was shown some years ago and thought people may like to see it . The mount is on a tsunagi and nothing is signed. Apparently there was an accompanying blade in shira saya that was stolen !

[DTM72]

That is beautiful! I noticed the flower is a 6-7-6 pattern. Maybe I understand imperial Japan better with their use of 3-5-3 and 5-7-5. Any significance of the 6-7-6 leaves and 9-9-9?

 

Absolutely love the mounts though.

[Okan]

Amazing workmanship. But I think Kiri mon's were added later. They are just not in the same quality with the rest if you know what I mean.

 

It should have look something like this.

 

 

 

 

[PNSSHOGUN]

That is really first class, thanks for sharing. One must imagine the blade was of equal or better quality. 

[Matsunoki]

12 hours ago, Okan said:

Amazing workmanship. But I think Kiri mon's were added later. They are just not in the same quality with the rest if you know what I mean.

 

It should have look something like this.

 

Hi Okan

Firstly….I’m not looking to pick a fight……there are too many going on on this Forum already!!🙂

However I cannot agree. The mon on this saya are superbly done in what looks like two colour gold lacquer (quite unusual for kirimon) with a bit of an eccentric touch by slightly increased curving of the flower shoots. Also the leaves have delicate detailing. The placement may look a odd but is dictated by the complex style of the metalwork ……far more complex than on the more standard koshirae you post.

On the one you post we can’t really see the individual quality of the mon.

My money is on “totally original”.

Best wishes. Colin

[DoTanuki yokai]

I think the Kirimon are also original and of high quality. 
 

They are raised with multi layers of Tonoko mixed with Urushi while most are “simply” lacquered on the nearly finished surface.  

[vajo]

Ian thats absolute stunning.

Did you have a picture from the whole Koshirae?

[Okan]

@Matsunoki@DoTanuki yokai

 

Dear Colin, 

 

I believe you do try to pick a fight! (Just joking, I don't know why but as you said so many fights going on these days!

 

Anyways, I didn't mean the quality about Kirimon itself, they are good. But the way they have applied..they are not on a straight line. Some how they seem like rotated a bit. So what I meant was the placement of the mons, not the quality(sometimes my english can be tricky) And of course the shakudo work is outstanding...But don't you think there is a chance that these mons were added later to gift a family sword to imperial family or Toyotomi's or something? Nevertheless, it's an amazing piece of art..

 

Here are some closer pictures of the other one. 

 

 

 

 

[Gakusee]

I love tachi koshirae and the metalwork here is of high quality indeed!

 

I am also curious as to the atypical and artistic interpretations of the kiri depictions, which have very clearly deviated from the canon. You will notice that they are 5-7-5, 6-7-6 and also 9-9-9! 

 

Lovely koshirae anyway. 

[Bugyotsuji]

The number of leaves on kiri mon varied by family, but the closest to Hideyoshi were 3-5-3 and 5-7-5, I heard somewhere, (but without any further backup checks). Perhaps someone can enlighten us before I have to hit the books again...?

[DoTanuki yokai]

Playing detective on my phone I come to following conclusion. The black behind the leaves is for better contrast against the nashiji and the gold flake inside the small leave shows that it was done before the nashiji. 
i could also be completely wrong 🥹

 

[Matsunoki]

11 minutes ago, Okan said:

But the way they have applied..they are not on a straight line.

I agree, the placement is different but the presence of far more “metalwork” may have influenced that. I have an Itomaki No Tachi kirimon Tachi with similar “out of alignment” placement and it also has the far more complex metalwork on the saya (but not quite the same quality!)….top one in this quick image.

Bottom line, as with nearly all things Nihonto, we will never be certain……it’s all a matter of opinion

[dkirkpatrick]

The tachi is literally covered in kiri mon anyway.  It would be weird if these places were blank when so many koshirae have lacquered mon in this location.  I’m in the original camp.

[mecox]

The 3-5-3 kiri mon is relatively common with numerous branch families.  And different branch mons vary in detail.   The 5-7-5 is a much higher rank.

Here's some examples from the Hawley mon book.   

 

[BjornLundin]

On 1/5/2023 at 12:00 PM, Matsunoki said:

I agree, the placement is different but the presence of far more “metalwork” may have influenced that. I have an Itomaki No Tachi kirimon Tachi with similar “out of alignment” placement and it also has the far more complex metalwork on the saya (but not quite the same quality!)….top one in this quick image.

Bottom line, as with nearly all things Nihonto, we will never be certain……it’s all a matter of opinion

 

Out of topic but I have never seen fur before? Bear Fur? Is there a story to this, special area in Japan where it was common or is it for specific occasions? Or just for fancy... Im a bit clueless here 😁

[Geraint]

Dear Bjorn.

 

They are, I think, uncommon to find for a variety of reasons.  Compare here, https://www.christies.com/en/lot/lot-2079026  They appear sometimes in prints of samurai in armour.

 

All the nest.

[Matsunoki]

49 minutes ago, BjornLundin said:

Out of topic but I have never seen fur before? Bear Fur? Is there a story to this, special area in Japan where it was common or is it for specific occasions? Or just for fancy... Im a bit clueless here 😁

Hi Bjorn

I  posted this actual Tachi on the Forum a while ago…..how did you miss it🙂🙂🙂🙂?? Included some images showing that type worn and some research done by others. It’s all in this link- Best wishes. Colin

 

[rematron]

It’s neat to see one photographed. I’ve only ever seen them in woodblock prints or art such as this: 

 

 

[Bugyotsuji]

One of the members of or teppotai matchlock company wears one.

[Ian B3HR2UH]

Hi Chris , this is about the only overall shot of the mount that I have . 

Ian brooks

[PNSSHOGUN]

That is a very impressive piece seen in full. It is a little funny to see such fine fittings in a fairly mundane kitchen....!

[Matsunoki]

The best Itomaki No Tachi koshirae that I’ve ever seen. Goodness knows what the blade was. Thanks for showing it.

Is there a story behind it? 
Where is it now? 
(Don’t all kitchens have these things in them?🙂)

[IBot]

I understand that the fur covers were called shrisaya, and the different types of fur indicated rank. Lowest rank used black bear-fur, higher rank used tiger skin.  An example loaned to the Royal Armouries in Leeds, UK turned out to be snow leopard !!!  - I've no idea what rank that indicated but can you imagine the reaction from Cites?

Ian Bottomley

 

[Bugyotsuji]

https://kotobank.jp/word/尻鞘・後鞘-2051419

Re Shirizaya

 

(Sometimes shortened to Shinzaya or Shizaya depending on the age/dialect.)

[Ian B3HR2UH]

I agree Colin . From memory it was given to someone during the occupation and his family still owns it . My friend who showed it to me is keeping that information pretty close to his chest . No one commented on the same which I think is the finest piece that I have ever seen . The largest nodule appears to be carved ivory but the rest looks to be the real thing and is fantastic .