zanilu Posted June 21 Report Posted June 21 I have no more time to waste arguing with you Dan. I will not play your game. Luca 2 Quote
Alex A Posted June 21 Report Posted June 21 Edit Dont want to say what i want to say in case it upsets folks. Horses for courses. PS, for any newbies with their heads spinning by all this, go back to what Ford Hallam stated and stick with that. 2 1 2 Quote
Curran Posted June 21 Report Posted June 21 On 6/20/2025 at 8:10 AM, zanilu said: "Arrampicarsi sugli specchi" that is a figurative way of saying "arguing on the impossibile", in english should be something like "clutch at straws". "Arrampicar(si)" . New verb to me. I'd say "arguing with yourself in the mirror". [or beating yourself up in the mirror?] I've long been tired of this thread. I'll consult with Brian about locking it. For now, posts stay up. I don't want to be censuring any more than I must. --- Everyone go back to their corners and sit down ---. Don't make me power up the cattle-prod. 4 1 Quote
Dan tsuba Posted June 24 Author Report Posted June 24 No need to power up the cattle prod! I started this thread, let me end it. Then Brian can lock this thread. So, what the nonbelievers of cast iron tsuba being made in the Edo period are saying is that there were no cast iron tsuba made until after the end of the Edo period (1868). They are saying that no cast iron tsuba were made during the Edo period. That means that all the craftsmen of tsuba got together and decided to wait until the end of the Edo period before making a cast iron tsuba and then they all said “yeah, let’s go ahead and make cast iron tsuba now”! Come on. Do you really believe that? The more plausible explanation being that at least 40 years (just guessing here - and my guess is derived from other posts and references stated in this thread) before the end of the Edo period cast iron tsuba were being made. Those cast iron tsuba could have been mounted on swords (as many old cast iron tsuba shown in this thread have sekigane in the nakago-ana or are shown mounted on swords) or they could have been made for the tourist trade. The point being that cast iron tsuba were being made in the Edo period. Now the administrator can lock this thread. 1 Quote
Curran Posted June 25 Report Posted June 25 Locking threads should probably be reserved for when things totally go off the rails or get too troglodyte and troll. This thread has gotten very long at 21pgs. My personal opinion is that it has become a time sink hole. I'd appeal to the fellow members here to move onto something else. 2 1 Quote
DirkO Posted June 25 Report Posted June 25 Also letting either side have the last word as if it were a definitive conclusion might be a bad idea - ideally one of the admins would do a post summarizing the different views and then lock it. 1 Quote
Brian Posted June 25 Report Posted June 25 Then we get accused of censoring any potential future "findings" or evidence. Nah, leave it to slowly bury itself. 1 2 Quote
Curran Posted June 25 Report Posted June 25 1 hour ago, Brian said: Then we get accused of censoring any potential future "findings" or evidence. Nah, leave it to slowly bury itself. I agree with Brian. Any summarizing might get accused of auditing / censoring. 1 Quote
Spartancrest Posted June 26 Report Posted June 26 I think this is the first [?] thread that has garnered so much response just from the idea of shutting it down! Non posso lasciar passare questo senza commentare . . . PS. Why do people choose to write in languages that are one click away from Google translate? [You need to be more creative - how about Morse code?] .. / -.-. .- -. - / .-.. . - / - .... .. ... / .--. .- ... ... / .-- .. - .... --- ..- - / -.-. --- -- -- . -. - 1 2 Quote
ROKUJURO Posted June 26 Report Posted June 26 Dale, I am not sure that so much traffic was caused by the wish to shut the thread down. In my opinion, it is more the concern of many responsible members that so much nonsense should not remain uncontradicted in an otherwise highly competent and specialized forum. But I have come to the insight that the whole discussion has nothing to do with Japanese culture or TSUBA. It is a psycho-pathological thing about being perceived and accepted (even in the form of "friction"), but this forum cannot offer therapy. 4 2 2 1 1 Quote
Dan tsuba Posted July 18 Author Report Posted July 18 Well, to finally address some of Jean’s last post. He stated- “But I have come to the insight that the whole discussion has nothing to do with Japanese culture or TSUBA.” I, on the other hand, think this whole thread and discussion has everything to do with TSUBA. I will refrain from answering the other parts of his post since the last time I did that my post was eliminated and I received a warning and a 7-day suspension on the forum. Onward! 1 Quote
Dan tsuba Posted Saturday at 10:41 PM Author Report Posted Saturday at 10:41 PM Well, here is something of interest. From a recent thread on the forum- https://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/53444-questi?on/ The frog tsuba in that thread appears to be cast iron (picture attached). Edo period? Not Edo period? Who knows! Just some more interesting stuff to consider. Onward my friends! 1 Quote
Dan tsuba Posted Monday at 11:28 AM Author Report Posted Monday at 11:28 AM I saw this information about the frog motif tsuba (shown above) on this other thread- https://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/53444-question/#comment-561175 (some of the information from a post by Spartancrest)- “Found in the Museum of Vancouver DB 403. They state: The iron plate of this tsuba was cast not forged. No signature is legible. The Museum also states: DATE OF USE 17th or 18th century. So, they believe it was made in the Edo period. [Let the arguments commence! :)]”. I know many members will think (and state?) that the museum could be wrong. But maybe the museum could be right in their assessment? Who knows, just some more interesting stuff about cast iron tsuba. Quote
Brian Posted Monday at 11:32 AM Report Posted Monday at 11:32 AM Show me their "expert" and where he studied Nihonto and tsuba manufacture methods. As far as I know, no museum has a Nihonto expert on board aside from Marcus, and their "experts" are at the level of the mid level member here. Not like they have access to info we don't have. In fact, probably far less. 1 Quote
MauroP Posted Monday at 11:35 AM Report Posted Monday at 11:35 AM (edited) Dan, please go here and read all the stuff... https://www.openmovportal.ca/argus/final/Portal/Main.aspx?component=AAFG&record=a7450643-c397-4d2e-a9a6-0cea5b180791 Edited Monday at 12:02 PM by MauroP wrong link Quote
Dan tsuba Posted Monday at 12:13 PM Author Report Posted Monday at 12:13 PM Well Mauro, I went to the site you stated and found that frog motif tsuba. Part of the description from the museum is shown below- "Date of Use- 17th or 18th Century The iron plate of this tsuba was cast not forged. PHYSICAL DESCRIPTION Iron; roughly oval; frog carved in the round in relief; no signature legible. MATERIAL metal, copper metal, silver alloy (?) TECHNIQUE cast chased engraved pierced” I have included the pictures of the tsuba below from the other thread. Now, to me, that is a cast iron tsuba that has been overcleaned so it appears more silver in color (as overcleaned iron tsuba tend to do). Just my opinion! Quote
Dan tsuba Posted Tuesday at 08:33 PM Author Report Posted Tuesday at 08:33 PM Hi Curran! What is that cryptic beer mug in your last post supposed to represent? This Buds for you! Thanks for your support, and I will also drink to that! Ha, ha, ha, ha, etc! Onward to more Edo period cast iron tsuba research! Quote
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