Nbthk Eb Members In Gräfrath

[BIG]

.. 20 000 000 Japanese swords...

 

https://www.solinger-tageblatt.de/solingen/japanische-kunstschwerter-sind-mehr-waffen-9884813.html

 

Best

[Pete Klein]

International group of experts met at the Deutsches Klingenmuseum in Gräfrath.
By Manuel Böhnke
They are wearing white cloth gloves. Some hold a handkerchief in front of their nose - others even bite it carefully. Because under no circumstances may saliva or sweat come into contact with the blade - risk of rusting. After bowing to respect the blacksmith, they carefully pick up the swords and carefully examine them.
The layman soon realizes that these men and women are from the field. They are members of the European spin-off of the Society for the Preservation of the Japanese Art Sword (NBTHK). On Saturday, the private collectors met at the Blades Museum in Gräfrath. The members want to preserve the centuries-old art and pass on their knowledge.
"We are not concerned with everyday objects, but with collectibles," explained Professor Eckhard Kremers. He is president of the European NBTHK. The martial aspect of the weapons does not matter. It's about the beauty of the material, the art of forging. It is estimated that there are more than 20 million Japanese swords. 10 to 15 percent stand out from the crowd. They were made artistically and have probably never seen the battlefield for the most part. "Forging technology is not so different from European ones," explained Dieter Kraft. The NBTHK member led the meeting on Saturday and presented parts of his collection. According to him, the real difference lies in how "so finely" the blades are handled, ground and polished.
Further cooperation between Klingenmuseum and NBTHK conceivable
The king's discipline for the collectors is to recognize the origin of a sword with a bare look. This happens in three steps. First, they hold the blade vertically and look at it at a 90-degree angle. Shape and bend allow conclusions to be drawn to the era in which the sword was forged. Keeping it level allows statements about the material. Used is Tamahagane steel, which is made in special ovens made of iron sand. In the final step, the experts look up at close range, which patterns have arisen during curing. These are characteristic for the respective manufacturer.
SOCIETY NBTHK The headquarters of the Society for the Preservation of Japanese Art Sword is located in Japan's capital Tokyo. The European offshoot currently has about 100 members. They come from Germany, Belgium, the Netherlands, Austria, Switzerland or Great Britain, among others. www.nbthk.net
Ideally, they even reveal the name of the blacksmith. "This knowledge can be read. You have to practice on examples, "explained Kraft. The art swords are a costly passion. Starting at just under € 1,000, selected models can cost well over € 100,000. According to Kraft, the decisive factor is not just age. "Were there 500 years of war, many simple swords were made." Their value is limited. In fact, it's about subtleties that initially remain hidden from inexperienced viewers.
"For us it is very special that this meeting takes place here for the first time," said museum director Dr. Isabell Immel. Upstairs there are some Japanese blades to see. However, this department requires special knowledge. They do not exist in their house so far. That's why Immel hopes to be able to cooperate with the NBTHK again in the future: "This is where this place of the blade culture lives." According to Dieter Kraft this is well conceivable: "The conditions are great. Communicating knowledge is our mission. "

 

via Google Translate

[YOJIMBO]

" After bowing to respect the blacksmith "

 

[Brian]

What is crazy about that? Everyone I know bows to the sword out of respect and to the smith.

[BIG]

Was curious about the twenty million swords...

 

Best

[Gakusee]

Yes, interesting number. I had heard/read that they were fewer: between 2m and 5m. It might be that the journalist misquoted?

[YOJIMBO]

What is crazy about that? Everyone I know bows to the sword out of respect and to the smith.

 

HMMM, 

If you bow to iaito, please what a blacksmith that belongs to ?

When you bend to the bokken, what carpenter does it belong to ?

[Pete Klein]

When you bend to the bokken, what carpenter does it belong to ?

 

Hmm...

[TETSUGENDO]

Good article, and the Google translation is amazingly worthy of a B+ this time, not that there isn't plenty of unintentioned humor due to errors in translation and syntax. As the planets must be perfectly aligned (I can think of no other explanation)....perhaps its time for a trip to the casino, or to purchase a lottery ticket.

 

-S-

[Hawley]

Was curious about the twenty million swords...

 

Best

That was a estimate number and the opinion of Mr. Kremers.

 

What is your opinion ?

The original question was : How many Japanese swords, from acient time until now, exist?

 

Have you got a better number ?

[paulb]

The key word in this is "exist"

According to Fuller and Gregory some 350,000 blades were surrendered by the army and navy at the end of WWII. They go on to estimate tha actual number carried during the conflict was nearer 1 million. This number comprised of showa blades and a small percentage of traditional blades carried in guinto mounts. We all see evidence  of these having been given away as trophies to the occupying forces and tend to forget that a huge number of them were dumped in the Pacific.

During occupation having swords was illegal and blades were surrendered or confiscated. Again some of the "liberated" pieces ended up in the west but I would think many others were destroyed.

With this a s a background I think 20 million is a huge over estimate (or printing error) by their very nature swords throughout history were at risk of being damaged or destroyed so the majority of those made in the 800 years preceding the war were lost. Combine this with the deliberate destruction post war then the existing number would I think be closer to 2 million or less.

This is pure opinion and I would be interested in others views.

[Hawley]

Japanese Swordsmith Revised by Hawley is a book with a listing about 32000 smith.(taken from the website of Grey Doffin)
How many smith are really existed......who knows.

Ok, let's play a little bit.......one Smith make 12 swordblades in one year.
After 20 years he had make 240 blades........one smith !

Today , the government in Japan say that a Smith is allowed to make two long swords per month or three short swords.
Result is after 20 years 440 longswords or 720 short swords.
In the book "The Craft of the Japanese Sword" we can read that Tsuda Sukehiro produced a extraordinary number of 1620 blades in 25 years. That mean 5 blades per month !

Ok....now I say 1 blade per month, 12 blades per year, 240 blades after 20 years and now I start fantasize ,with 32000 smith (after Hawley) ......we have 7680000 !
Take the limitation from our time (two long blades per month)....15360000 !.....
.........(three short blades per month) ...23040000 !,

I know that this is not a serious way ....and it is not a answer to the question :How many swords exist (from ancient time until now)......nobody knows how many swords have been destroyed....but is it really absolutely impossible to talk from a estimation about 20 million blades ?

I think....... why not?

[Pete Klein]

I would be amazed if all existing true Nihonto numbered in excess of 100,000.

[Greg F]

I read somewhere that there is aprox 1,000,000 blades in existence. Cant remember where i read it unfortunately.

 

Greg

[Jussi Ekholm]

It's an interesting question. I did some minor searching about NBTHK papered swords and I do believe that there are 100,000+ Hozon papers for swords (made a new topic for it not to derail this one). Of course some of them have gone Hozon - Tokubetsu Hozon - Jūyō route so they remain as "ghosts" in numbering as sword has papers on multiple levels.

 

I think that only a portion of swords is papered by NBTHK or NTHK branches. You'll still see lots of unpapered stuff in Japan and all around the world. So I think the estimate in few millions might be a good one. When you think about it I have no idea how many thousands of swords are owned by some major museums alone in Japan. There are also some Shrines and private collectors with massive collections. You'll see tons of stuff being sold in Japan at any given moment. I think there are many thousands of swords being sold by well reputable dealers and many thousands on Japanese domestic market (internet auctions etc.).

 

And of course you'll see good amount of stuff on international market too. Thousands of swords are being sold outside Japan too.

[BIG]

Would like to hear more opinions..Darcy, Markus, Morita San, ...

 

Best

[BIG]

Mr. Schiller said in his 2006 article about Sword Law that 2.3 million Nihonto are registered in Japan. May be Michael is right and we have misquote in the Gräfrath article.

 

Best

[vajo]

That nonsene that european forging and Japanese forging are nearby similar is often told in german tv. I can't hear this anymore.

There is also an ongoing meaning from self educated experts like the blacksmith Stephan Roth who told the world that Japanese swords are not this what they seem to be.

It's like you say, that Mc Donalds is better for your health than a dinner from Eckhart Witzigmann. 

 

Katana by the best European Swordsmith Stephan Roth

 

Japanese Yoshimasa

 

Lightyears away...