Mounting Papered Tosogu, Should It Be Done?

[PhoenixDude]

Considering building a set of koshirae and was wondering what the consensus is on using papered tosogu. Should it be done? Will it damage the fittings?
Opinions?

[Geraint]

Hi Jay.

 

A lot of us get tempted in this direction, it is a very good experience and you could learn a lot by doing it. As is always the case knowing how something is done and being able to do it are two completely different things and you will discover a new respect for the Japanese craftsmen who produce koshirae.   I suppose the answer to your question is a big NO as far as papered fittings go.  If you are hoping to get the koshirae to look right and if  by build you mean commission the relevant craftsmen to do the work then the cost is going to be high and you will almost certainly never recoup that when the time comes to pass it on.

 

If you want to have a go yourself then, as I mentioned this can be a most educational experience but you will learn just as much by using lower end, unpapered fittings.  This is certainly what I would suggest most especially for your first attempt.  

 

Have fun with this.

 

All the best.

[PhoenixDude]

I was thinking of having someone skilled at making koshirae do it, best of the best. It would be something I keep though and not sell later on.

[Alex A]

I once bought some Ko Kinko menuki (papered) to finish off a koshirae project, in the end I just couldn't do it. As mentioned above, it can be money wasted when you come to sell.

 

Ive said on many occasions I'm going to keep stuff, then sold it when something else as caught my eye. 

 

If I truly had a keeper, then I would buy good fittings, not too bothered whether papered or not.

[Grey Doffin]

 

It would be something I keep though and not sell later on.

If not you then your heirs and when the time comes to sell you will take a bath.  Collectors looking to buy koshirae want antique and from Japan, not something put together yesterday in the west.  Nothing wrong with doing it, even with papered pieces as long as you keep the papers with the koshirae; just so you understand what you're taking on.  If you spend $1,000 for tsuba, fuchi/kashira, menuki, and what not, and then you pay craftsmen $2,000 to build the koshirae, when the time comes to sell you'll be lucky to get the $1,000 back.

It makes better sense to buy the sword you want.  If you want a sword in fine koshirae then look for one.  If you buy smart, when the time comes to sell there will be no bath.

Grey

[Geraint]

Of course you could always just buy a nice koshirae, have a look at these. http://www.nihonto.com/itemsalekoshirae.htmlor these, https://www.aoijapan.com/fittings/koshirae

 

All the best.

[Stephen]

agree with Grey on really fine papered fittings.

 

something like this begs to be used on a koshirae

 

 https://www.aoijapan.com/set-of-tosogu-fuchi-kashira-kurikata-kojiri

[Toryu2020]

I vote no for reasons already stated,

-t

[Dr Fox]

Valuable papered fittings which are boxed, are sale items which collectors value.

Although they are not serving their original purpose in the box, they are collectable.

 

Lower value, unboxed, non papered items could be used in a koshirae build, and will take on a new ‘look’ when fitted as intended, the tasteful selection of all parts will be a delight to the owner, and will make a blade a sword.

 

Recovery of costs! If every thing we do or have done, has resulted in 100% profit ,then we were born under a special star, it has not happened to me.

The loss in this project is the cost of the craftsmen’s work, the fittings are still there, either to be resold as individual pieces or as a complete koshirae. 

 

There is a keen sense of satisfaction, when a koshirae. is completed. More so if it showcases the local talents in these skills, in my case the UK.

Is it meant to compare with or pretend to be Japanese?, No never, the intention was to admire the art of the metalwork in their fitted for purpose settings.

 

“A waste of money!” ………… This is a family thing, not for resale. Had I commissioned the same from Japan, still a ‘modern’ build, the loss would have been substantial, as it is, I could not buy a low grade nihonto with the sum of the ‘loss’.

[Adversary]

Interesting thoughts on this here. I would have thought that these super valuable/important juyo blades would end up in papered (equally as important/nice) fittings. The ones that end up in koshirae anyways. 

[paulb]

99.99% really important swords will be kept in shirasaya. Even if a koshirae was assembled for them I think it would be unlikely the blade would ever be mounted in it.

Not being as great a fittings enthusiast as many are here it is a problem I seldom face. The one or two really beautiful fittings I have encountered over the years deserve to stand in their own right as what they are, fine art. If an older original koshirae exists with such work in situ then fine  leave it be and enjoy it. But if I had a really important fittings I think I would have to think long and hard before considering assembling them in to a koshirae. 

[PhoenixDude]

Ok, well to add to this dicussion, here is a related situation i am mulling over:

 

I have a nice owakizashi signed Yamato Daijo Fujiwara Masanori, I plan on trying to get authenticated. Its koshirae is really rough, the leather tsukaito is broken at the top of the tsuka, the saya is chipped a bit and the tsuba is a simple brass one I don't think was original to the koshirae. the F&K are both iron and the whole set is fairly plain.

 

A. Should I have the saya stripped and relacqured, and the tsuka rewrapped in identical tsukaito

or

B. Should I remove the old mounts (keep them with the sword for posterity ofc) and make new ones

or

C. don't do anything?

 

This is all assuming it does pass shinsa ofc.

[b.hennick]

Get a shirasaya made and make a wood tsunagi to hold the koshirae together.  I have found that wooden paint stirrers with adjustments work well.

[Vermithrax16]

Agree with general thoughts here; fine, rare, documented fittings leave them alone! Period pieces of no real line or documentation but look great? Go for it.