Thoughts on this Iron Hamano F/K?

[kaigunair]

The activity on the tosogu section's been kinda of a snore lately. I have been putting together a little post on another piece I'd like to discuss, but need a few pics of another piece which I'll get over the weekend. In the mean time, I'm tossing this item up in hopes that it was make for interesting discussion in the tosogu section.

 

I had seen this hamano-marked set pop up on ebay, and thought it was decent. Different in that it looked like iron base with kinko design on an f/k. The raiden(?) seemed decently rendered, but not that great. Wasn't sure if that was due to detail being lost in ware or just lower quality. I did NOT bid or win this auction.

 

Attributed to Hamano Naoyuki (1745-1819). I didn't look up the signature, because I wanted to judge it based on the strength of the design itself. My thoughts were the iron was well done, not so much raiden. I was also keying in on the gold rope/threads. I was thinking a Hamano school smith would have rendered those better, but I also wondered if lack of detail could have been due to wear (if they were solid gold). The faces seemed to have some wear, but I was also trying to consider how small everything must be. Judging by the ending price, I think someone might have felt it was genuine.

 

How would you judge this piece?

[kusunokimasahige]

I personally find it a gorgeous item. That it suffers from rust is a pity but the design I really like.

 

The signature would be something for Morita Sensei to translate.

 

What was the end price ?

 

KM

[Brian]

I think anytime you see iron fuchi/kashira you must look closer. And when there is some competent workmanship like these exhibit, on a surface that isn't flat like a tsuba...that just adds to the admiration imho. I'm not sure they are masterpieces...but they very nice indeed. Rare that you see what looks like hammerwork on f/k in iron?

Would love to hear Ford's opinion..but I like these. Would be much nicer once cleaned up.

 

Brian

[kaigunair]

I personally find it a gorgeous item. That it suffers from rust is a pity but the design I really like.

 

The signature would be something for Morita Sensei to translate.

 

What was the end price ?

 

KM

 

 

The signature was Naoyuki (kao). I just didn't crack open the wakayama books to compare to those "genuine" ones as well as the kao. I just wanted to ponder the design and whether it was up to Hamano standards. Being on iron is what made it harder for me, though I did like the iron texture here...

 

Ending price was $900, which is pretty high for an ebay listing of f/k. I believe it would be on the lower side when compared to the prices on dealer website listings for a mainline hamano (not sure if Naoyuki is mainline hamano or not).

 

Yes, shame about the vertegris and rust. But I'm still trying to figure out if the lack of details is due to age and wear or due to less than Hamano school skill...

[b.hennick]

I too saw and liked the piece. It went out of my price range and so did not bid. I agree that the work was good but not great.

Tempting but not screaming buy me.

I think that the rust would be easiy taken care of.

[kaigunair]

Thanks for the comment barry. I see a lot of pieces being listed out of Canada lately. Seems to be a good body of collectors up in your parts (..or a flight of collectors who are liquidating their collections) :D .

 

Brian, yes, hoping some of the "big guns" on the board will weigh in...I always enjoy reading those posts. Even more so when there is a disagreement and it goes back and forth for a while. Lots of useful info for noephytes like myself, but I also think the lines of debate are often crossed alittle too often in those discussions, which may be partly why some people hesitate to post the more interesting pieces from their collection here, to the detriment of the NMB tosogu forum...

[docliss]

This is an interesting pair, and the work on an iron base is quite impressive: it is a pity that it is so badly rusted. Personally, I do not think that it measures up to the work of Hamano Naoyuki, who is rated as Joko (‘an excellent artist’). Neither am I convinced by the mei nor the kao. But at $900 somebody was obviously impressed.

 

John L.,

[Curran]

Some compression on the kinko face. Iron will be difficult to clean unless person is very experienced. Makes me tired just contemplating the work involved.

 

Not a design I remember seeing in an iron f/k. Most interesting.

As Junichi said, I'm just commenting on the work before touching a book to consider the signature.

[John A Stuart]

I would have bid on these, the subject is great and the work pretty good. Cleaned up might be a good buy. Has anyone tried sonic cleaning on light corrosion like this? John

Oh, I wanted to add; I find the ties (himo) and bag mouth (shingenbukuroguchi) not being the twisted rope type better.

[Kevin Adams]

There's something about the texture of the iron on the fuchi - I think it would look positively exquisite if the rust were cleaned up. Nice find, thanks for sharing!

[Ian]

Here is another fuchi signed Hamano Naoyuki (kao)

 

 

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=15656

[Jiro49]

I've used a sonic on a couple iron pieces add in chicken bone and a toothbrush and they came out pretty nice...

[Stephen]

IMHO the rust adds to its charm.

[kaigunair]

Oh, I wanted to add; I find the ties (himo) and bag mouth (shingenbukuroguchi) not being the twisted rope type better.

 

I agree. What I meant was I would have expected the the detailing on the twists of the cloth would have been more defined by a mainline hamano smith. Also some of the details of raiden's muscles. But again, not sure if this is due to wear or lack of skill.

 

Thanks to the many other who have commented. I am enjoying the thread!

[docliss]

An additional reason for my doubts as to the origin of this pair lies in the base of the fuchi. In the work of the masters every aspect is one of perfection. In this fuchi the join between the tenjō-gane and the koshi is very irregular and of unacceptable quality.

 

John L.