Gakusee

Both ceremonial / decorative blades as can be seen from the impractical/excessive sori, overall sugata and decorative fittings. Interesting items to display.

Thanks, Piers. I always spend my business trips in Tokyo and wish I had a bit extra time to visit your locality (which is not that far). Difficult with work and strict compliance requirements but will try one day. For now - please enjoy vicariously for us and, if possible, please show us some pictures when you get a chance and is allowed.

Enviable Bizen-to lineup. If only we could be there...

He was a lovely, helpful, humble and erudite gentleman, whose presentations were always so enjoyed by all ToKen Society members. And the Cutting Edge exhibition he curated was outstanding! He taught kendo, was president of the ToKen Society, helped shape the Japanese collection of the British Museum and his exquisite and sophisticated touch in all things Japanese brought subtle elegance to various endeavours he was involved in. May he rest in peace.

That looks more like a ceremonial or decorative blade to me. O-dachi did exist and were carried by an assistant who helped with their drawing but this blade's sugata and relative dimensions seem to indicate another purpose. What do you think?

Both are beautiful. The iron gives it that extra drama and nuancing.

Well done, Fred!! There were some gems in there. Yours and a couple of others in particular. A few times I did not bite the bullet in some online auctions and have regretted it so kudos to you and other guys who look through the rust or the obvious gimei (not in this case but in other) and decide to take a plunge.

I am somewhere in between what has been said by others. Firstly, I have narrowed my field, so that I stay focused - Bizen (even though that could be pretty wide in itself) and preferably Koto or Ko-Bizen. Would love a good Heian blade, or a beautiful Yamashiro or Soshu, but funds are limited so need to stay focused. Similarly to Denis, I tend to buy and keep. As I also aim to buy among the best I can afford, I cannot buy many blades and it is less than one a year for me. Having been discussed on the board previously, focusing one's collecting field usually yields thorough learning, discipline and purpose, and minimises temptations.

Francesco, did you buy that sword? It looks like some of "them" were actually genuine treasures, even though most people were sceptical or uncertain due to the rusty condition of the blades.

All three blades on sale are top quality ones. The Y Ichimonji was a steal (almost half price and with beautiful koshirae!). The two tanto are also very covetable.

Well, to help James a bit directionally, this similarly to other KoBizen has a slightly darker hada, they normally have jifu utsuri and many more darker chikei hataraki than Hizento. I dare say that often the nie is more visible on a KoBizen than on a Hizento.

Darcy and Jean Thank you for your thoughts and shared experience - they are very insightful, as usual. I was trying to put into perspective the pricing at 3.3m yen of a very well preserved Juyo mumei wakizashi classified Ko-Bizen but clearly later than Heian (as it shows some transition to Ichimonji and yet some of the typical Ko-Bizen hataraki). As you mention, the fact that they have been shortened so severely and it is still classified as Juyo and called a masterwork in the setsumei demonstrates the quality is high and the NBTHK thought highly of it. I can see a definite and clear quality differential between that one and the TH one at Aoi which explains the 2x price difference. But overall I agree with you - the high quality of this Aoi blade and the fairly good ensuite koshirae make this Aoi offer very, very attractive package even if it does not qualify to Juyo.

Darcy, what is your view on the monetary aspect? I would have thought that being a Ko-Bizen blade, given the relative rarity of those (in total around 800 in existence if I remember correctly one of your posts), it would be more expensive than what Aoi is advertising it for. The Aoi blade comes with the added bonus of papered koshirae as well. Put differently, what in your experience would you expect a Juyo Ko-Bizen wakizashi to be offered at? I am not suggesting that this blade would be elevated to that status but let us just hypothesise along the lines of a similar blade (well-preserved Ko-Bizen wakizashi). Thank you

I am also interested. Thank you for the generous offer, Randy, and to all the skilled translators.

On our common path to learning, just a few tips from me. There is a very in-depth treatise by Tanobe San on gimei swords and what gives them away and how to recognise gimei. I keep referring to it and it was referenced partially in another thread. If you can get hold of the Japanese PDF (with the pics) and the English translation,that is fairy dust. Onto this sword - yes the jiri might be finished in Kaga fashion. But look at the overall balance (or lack thereof) of the nakago. Would the Mei be placed so low? Would the shinogi line be wobbly and obtuse in places or would it be straight, confident and consistent? There are various other signs as looking at the Mei makura (raised edges), the surface around the Mei etc.

Not to hijack the camelia oil thread but actually it does make a difference which product you use. Derek performed an excellent experiment using 10 or so oils, lubricants, etc and simulated saliva, sweat, humidity or so. It is worthwhile digging out that thread and re-checking the results. I think Fujishiro/ pure mineral oil beat camelia oil (and many others) due to the organic floral ingredients in the camelia oil.

Just a quick question- is this a new organisation? I am struggling to find a website and there seems to be only a Facebook page (I am not on Facebook, so cannot read it). If new - well done for setting it up and popularising our hobby. Best of luck.

Unfortunately many people do it. Both collectors (I have bought swords from members here who split the package to make money or recoup investment) and dealers (Tsuruta offered to me several times to split a package when I was negotiating with him on a couple of swords - I declined he entire offer as I feel strongly about ruining something historically assembled for a purpose). This is an unfortunate and sad fact. I have also seen packages where very clearly the tsuba had been peddled away as all the koshirae were en suite but the very obviously aesthetically ill-fitting tsuba. Sometimes the appeal of the blade (in my view tantamount to the essence of the sword) is too strong and I view the koshirae as a nice sweetener and not a must-have. So I do not mind if historically someone had swapped parts but I refuse to partake of or proactively authorise such disassembly myself.

Well, now that Darcy has put them side by side - there are some very slight differences, yet they are there. For example almost all of the genuine signatures are perfectly vertical and split by the nakago shinogi line (some radicals to the left and some to the right of the nakago shinogi) - yet Tsuruta san's does not fit perfectly like the others. Also the yasurime lines are ever so slightly steeper. I am not good at kanji to detect some subtle radical /kanji handwriting differences but probably there might be some - e.g., the bottom kanji seems too spaced out versus the denser Juyo examples. Also, given the TH certificate date of 2008, then indeed if it were to go Juyo in the last nine years, it probably would have. The problem is that sometimes we see certificates, see a reputable dealer and decide to leave our reason or logic behind and rely on these externalities. Yet- we should always be alert and sceptical until thoroughly convinced it is what it claims on the tin. The adage about too good to be true would not have alerted me this time as I said from the outset - even if it were zaimei, in my view it would be way overpriced and not worth that much. Let alone if the blade is gimei.

It is a nice enough, long and signed sword by a smith shrouded in some mystery. I understand the rarity as well, given his short life. Notwithstanding all of the above, I do not think it is worth several Heian and Kamakura masterpieces taken together - which are both rarer and better. Nevertheless I am following this topic with bated curiosity as speculating about why it did not go Juyo, or why it is being flipped so quickly is interesting.

Same - link does not work for me unfortunately (

I agree, Richard - people here could be both helpful/friendly but also vehement and jumpy at times. We tend to be judgemental and make assumptions rather than peruse, analyse, re-read and endeavour to see the opposite point. We all have to learn - not only about the Nihonto arts but how to deal with each other. Persevere and stay - you will not regret it.

You probably missed it by scrolling on a mobile phone, which simplifies browsing in a mobile format and misses the full forum.

Koshirae are relatively transient, were (and still are) commissioned according to fashion and personal taste (unless we talk of the formal furniture decreed by the court) and a sword would have had a number of replacements in its life. In fact, I really liked the anecdote of a fellow board member:" I inherited my great grandfather's axe but since then we replaced the handle 4 times and the head twice" (apologies for misquoting the numbers, which are purely illustrative, and plagiarising the witticism). The blade is this relatively intransient / more durable quintessential element, which if preserved properly will and does last longer than the more brittle koshirae, and epitomises this craft. To talk of swords only in the context of a fully clad blade is a bit redolent of these elitist sentiments mentioned here previously. Should one forego a perfectly acceptable blade / sword, simply because it only comes in shirasaya? Of course, koshirae are a lovely deal sweetener, but often the blade would have been separated from its koshirae by previous owners/ dealers. However, to the point of the original post: koshirae and tosogu collectors are collectors in their own right. What unites us is passion, perseverance to learn more about our subject, the willingness to meet fellow collectors, to ability to talk knowledgably (to an extent) and share knowledge / experience with others, the pain and trouble (financial, emotional etc) we go through in order to indulge our hobby. How many are there - difficult to quantify as many are reclusive, some are secretive, others are shy (or intimidated by more vocal collectors / authorities on the subject). How many are in the UK - I would venture a guess at a number in the range of two to three hundred (just by knowing the approximate membership base of the two societies here and extrapolating to some of the visitors to the various events we have organised, but who are not signed up members)

I agree with Paul that this mokume itame combination is not what I understand chirimen to be (eg beautifully illustrated in Darcy's photo archive). Perhaps the blade is too tired? Also the hamon is a bit perplexing (even though ko-Bizen or Hoki have wilder hamon with more ko-nie and with more concentric swirls in the main section of the blade and then calming down to more suguha in the monouchi area vs this one with the gunome?).