Gakusee

Hi Piers I cheekily posted that before the wider reports of what was available there by various privileged members who were invited to its opening or on other occasions. Now, with the benefit of the subsequent posts, I understand there are various high-grade Yamashiro blades there (there was a post somewhere here with a picture of the Rai blades and their arrangement etc). I look forward to visiting the museum one day and seeing the catalogues. Of course “quality” could be in the eye of the beholder but could also be relatively objective.

There have been various posts in the past - did you search the forum? Tony Norman has now retired and I doubt he will take a new commission (though you could ask him....). Les Stewart is another name I have heard and I have seen him demonstrate. But it of course depends on what you are having polished - it is a complex matter and can raise a lot of controversy about what gets polished where by what polishers (traditionally trained in Japan or partially trained in Japan etc). All of this merits a lengthy discussion and probably best handled via PM as well.

This is just a taster. The dealers puts 2-3 items in the catalogue but when you go to the DTI they have ten times as many. In fact, many of the best blades of various dealers are not even in the catalogue.

Rayhan, Slander (as well as libel) is underpinned by falsehood. I have shown proof that Aoi sometimes both airbrushes and exaggerates in their oshigata so my statements were not false defamatory utterances. I do not claim they do it all the time but they clearly have done it. Ray demonstrated to you how to enhance or change the filters in Photoshop to make Kurt’s sword’s crack more visible. Again, a reputable dealer should have mentioned it. The rest of your post is beneath me to respond to. I have better things to do with my time at the weekend such as spending time with my family.

Good decision to return it, Kurt - if you are not happy with it, it will bother you and your eyes will be drawn to the crack. Rayhan - let us not diminish the discourse and keep it courteous and balanced. I have kept my statements factual and balanced, highlighting positive experiences and negative experiences with Aoi. Let me address some of your points: - dessert could be savoury as well and in fact, cheeses are often a dessert course but I like the analogy as indeed the whole issue with that Kunimune blade is pungent all right. And so is Kurt’s blade. The crack should have been m ti Ned by Aoi , even if it is not particularly discernible in photos. - the Saburo Kunimune blade was not discussed to death. There was another blade where the oshigata was aspirational. In fact,there are many examples where Aoi shows a healthy, full boshi and in the Juyo papers or actual pictures there is a sliver of hamon in the kissaki - you are contradicting yourself: You state the Kunimune blade was discussed to death and you knew about the issues with it. Therefore, by implication you would have known about the Photoshopped area. Yet, you dare claim we slander when we say Aoi Photoshops pictures and exaggerates in their oshigata - the Kunimune Juyo excerpt was there for a while but then it as not accessible for a while.... - private correspondence is private and not for public boards. I shall deign an explanation though as you are so “politely” requesting it. We were discussing another blade with Tsuruta san, one which had a clear kirikomi. Not the Kunimune. Tsuruta san acknowledged the kirikomi in his email to me , so that was good - kirikomi are angular (often triangular or prismatic) in shape. They are normally in the mune and sometimes in the shinogi are. The Kunimune opening does not look like a sword kirikomi as it is roundish with jagged edges. It is a flaw from some impact, unclear what. Aoi is a volume player. As we have said before, some of the errors are just that - unintentional mistakes. But sometimes the practices are (un)savoury (pun intended). I have not seen Darcy or Fred or Kurokawa san in Japan or Takahashi san or Iida san etc etc ever Photoshop flaws. Anyway, my posts are to highlight potential pitfalls. A blade is best inspected in hand unless you absolutely trust the online dealer. One can do well with Aoi but one needs to be experienced and reasonably shrewd.

Ok, boys and girls, get your popcorn and sit comfortably and enjoy the show. As I have said many a time, I do not post frequently - in fact, only a handful of times. I have been on this forum for well over 10-12 years initially as a lurker and then a member and proffer opinions only occasionally. When I do, it is because I have relevant facts, knowledge, time or predisposition to do it (like my current jet lagged self) and want to help people who are on a learning curve or about to fall into a pit. To be honest, I am also a Koto Bizen aficionado and a bit of a Muramasa fan and people do not discuss these topics often either. So, I browse and try hard to find interesting topics to add to. Furthermore, I do not slander. This is the last thing I would do and oblique references by Rayhan to such demeanour can only infuriate me and precipitate further action. If you trace my actions here, you will notice a common thread: disabuse the misguided, debunk myths about (pseudo) polishers or artisans, point out gimei signatures, etc in my quixotic attempt to help people. If readers and participants do turn a blind eye, refuse to learn or do not do sufficient homework - it is up to them; caveat emptor. This is being a long preamble (the denouement is at the bottom) but please stay with me. Next, a few tips in general to Internet sword purchasers, mentioned already by respectable, long-term members here: - use Wayback Machine (in fact donate to that Alexa project): it captures historic snapshots of websites and you will find it useful to uncover old versions of websites and in our case - posted swords, sales etc - tweak picture settings, magnify, inspect millimetre by millimetre the photos provided to you - ask for more pictures - specifically learn the flaw terms and ask about the presence of those - if the sword is Juyo: a) if you do not know Japanese, pay for a translation of the Juyo Zufu Nado setsumei ($30 -$40 to Markus Sesko well spent) as that describes what the NBTHK judges really think about the blade (deals with bombastic marketing language by dealers); b ) pay for or do yourself a translation of the sayagaki, c ) inspect the Juyo Zufu Nado oshigata and pictures for a truthful representation of the sword - do not be deluded that you will stumble across a hidden gem (they do exist, are very rare and it is a tough game to play and also relies a lot on chance) - assume the blade you are considering has been eyeballed plenty of times in Japan and internationally - ask here for advice BEFORE you buy .... The list can go on Now let us get back to our friends Aoi Art Japan, the well-known, anglo-friendly dealer who targets the mid market so successfully (but also has high-end swords often enough). Darcy Brockbank, who has selflessly posted and taught newbies here for so many years, and recently vexed by this board to the point of leaving, has posted several times about the “scratch & dent” specials of Aoi. Now, not all swords are problematic but many of the postings have issues (which make them no so attractive in Japan or to mor advanced collectors or to experts) and one needs to do homework and thorough analysis to figure out why. But not everyone is advanced or has deep pockets, and this makes Aoi an attractive marketplace with something for pretty much everyone. The issues with the Aoi items could be minor: blade length is not so attractive, unusual/atypical signature (described in setsumei but NOT explained in website narrative), wrong but not deliberately deceitful descriptions (irrelevant text brought forward from other postings or wrong certificate description). Or they could be more major: doctored photos, exaggerated oshigata, improperly run auctions (where they let their online auctions run for longer than the advertised time), and others (for the advanced students - remember the thread a couple of years about a putative Kiyomaro). On the plus side, if you really know what you are doing, you know/ understand what you are getting, then you could buy good blades there as well. I have done so and upgraded a blade to Juyo, which I bought from Aoi. Tsuruta san laughed and smiled when I told him but was also surprised he had missed a trick and not upgraded it himself (and tripled the sale price). And now specially for Rayhan - the dessert..... Below is a little tired but nearly ubu, signed shoshin Bizen Saburo Kunimune. A grandmaster of a smith. The blade is a little tired and on the short side and the nioiguchi has lost some of its vigour. These are the characteristics which make it less attractive to people in the market for Kunimune and with those sorts of funds to spend and in general - the upper end market and Japan. If these were not the case, it would be probably 20% - 30% more expensive. In any case, please look at the attached A - Aoi oshigata B - Aoi full length photo Now compare them to the attached Nuyo Zufu Nado Excerpt. Pay attention to the hamon outline - particularly the boshi but also the activity interpretation in both oshigata. I know which one I trust. Next, look at the clearly drawn kizu in the NBTHK paper. Compare it to the unattractively Photoshopped blob in the Aoi picture - the kizu is missing but also the elliptical blob is obvious when magnified. If you analyse the sidereal series of photos which Aoi also posts to show the hamon (the PDF file herein), you will also notice that large dent is there, albeit cleverly obscured by use of lighting. I rest my case. kunimune aoi 2.pdf

Ray I did not say they did it often but they have done it. Perhaps it is one of the young chaps in the background but they did it on a Juyo sword I was considering by a reasonably famous maker. In the emails back and forth Tsuruta san did explain there was a mark there, as I had glimpsed in the Juyo paper and went on to say it was a battle mark. In another instance, it was just a small kizu in the shinogi ji (I could live with that on a Kamakura blade) but it was cleverly obscured in the large format full length photo. I am really glad your Aoe turned all right, as did my sword purchase from them. And I also visit them 1-2 a year. But buyers need to be aware, ask questions upfront, check oshigata, check photos, ask for additional pictures if unsure etc. If we have the luxury to inspect items in hand the it is another matter altogether. If not, ask questions of Tsuruta san - he usually gives clear and plausible answers.

So, this does not look like kitae ware (forging issue) but a crack which might have been due to impact or could be due to tension release upon polishing etc. It looks fatal to me from a combat perspective as if the sword is thrust (less liikely) or swung and the kissaki hits a hard target it might break. Now onto Aoi Art.... I have had successful purchases from them. But I have also seen instances where they Photoshopped out some kizu (flaws) or misrepresented the hamon in their oshigata. So, one needs to inspect photos and items very carefully. The fact that they do a high volume has little to do with integrity etc but the price point they sell at and the English language market they target (one of very few Japanese dealers with full English websites). One also needs to construe carefully the broken English translations and for Juyo items - read the setsumei etc, as those sometimes reveal wishful or very clever marketing. Mostly they are OK though.

Valric There is a separate posting by Darcy about the conversion rate of Juyo into Juyo+. However, still work in progress. There are still “undiscovered” blades. Those undiscovered will skew the stats, based only on published NBTHK docs. And frankly who cares if a Masamune is “just” Hozon (not captured by analysis) or Juyo or Kokuho? If it is a Masamune, by definition it would go to Juyo at least. Same with something like Mitsutada or Nagamitsu. Moreover, some smiths are so rare and precious that such conversion does not makes sense because there are not enough specimens - eg Tomonari, Yoshimitsu etc. So with such rare gems you might get to a stage where Juyo+ far exceeds Juyo. Having said all of the above, a conversion rate into “super-prime” is an interesting ballpark. But the absolute number of highly rated blades does not mean that Nagamitsu or Rai (Niji) Kunitoshi were better or better rated than Tomonari, Mitsutada, Munechika etc.

I would be interested in the PDF file too, if someone discovers it. Thank you!

Many of these top blades were likely by the students or disciples but signed in the master’s name.

Going back to the tanto....The mei herewith does not seem to correspond to the tight, compact mei of Nagamitsu’s son Bizen Osafune Kagemitsu, who worked in the 14th century. For the rest - the polish is not adequate to tell defining characteristics of hamon and hada. Good luck and enjoy it.

I also use zcorr military bags

Belgian artist Willem Dolphyn is my conjecture

Is there a catalogue somewhere or inventory of the swords in this museum? I would be interested in ascertaining the quality of the blades (not necessarily the koshirae) and would be grateful if someone could kindly share such inventory. The expectations overall have been raised very highly by various comments predominantly appertaining to armour.

Thank you, Stephen, I misread what the initially described process above entailed. Thank you for clarifying. I have often wondered whether to use them or not and due to the mixed feedback, I have avoided them completely. I am glad you have had success with them

Stephen A big flaw in described process above is that it seems the category can be edited only after the item arrives at the destination country. Therefore, the invoice can be amended but it would be more important to have it classified correctly before it is shipped from Japan. That way you avoid issues at customs usually.

DA, by the way you mention choji in your hamon but it is notare midare with some sunagashi. Choji is a very specific shape which resembles cloves and buds.

That is how we intended it. We digitalised our archive 2-3 years ago for people to read and learn. Mostly because we did not want historic information to get lost. On our ToKen of GB society pages you will also find the sword register (or at least partially) which Clive Sinclaire built over many years as well as sundry articles and meeting summaries. Overall - there are no shortcuts to this hobby and time and again I see newcomers here seek quick answers, get jumpy etc. The historic newsletter archive, the sword register and the articles comprise quite a wealth of information. More recently, our friends Brent Tanner and Francisco Coutinho of the JSSUS have contributed numerous articles too, for which we are grateful.

I concur with Paul - the hada and hamon do not seem right for the attribution. You would expect more choji in the hamon and the hada to be mokume -itame mix. Not masame and not such suguha notare based hamon. With Ichimonji you also get a lot of utsuri (mostly midare but could be jifu). Attached are NBTHK papered examples from my own collection (a slightly earlier Yoshioka katana closer to Fukuoka in workmanship and a slightly later Yoshioka wakizashi, late Kamakura or early Nambokucho). Apologies for the amateur pictures but that is what I can do.

Congratulations and well done, Dave! Kudos well deserved.

The hamon appears to have had some acidic substance applied to it or some other non-Nihonto substance.

Interesting discussion. I have also heard that JuBi could, with the right connections, possibly be exported but will lose the JuBi status. However, why would one care that the status has been lost if one knew that the sword had previously been JuBi? That former status is sufficient testament to its importance. I have also heard that TJ is actually at least on par with JuBi and sometimes higher in quality or rarity. Therefore, it is more straightforward for a foreigner to either acquire TJ or progress a Juyo through shinsa to become TJ rather than aim at JuBi; if the conditions for TB are present, that is. This is a rarefied stratum we are entering here and hence the sparseness of tangible evidence or examples.

I thought we were talking about habaki. Apologies if I misunderstood but have had the $2-3k solid gold habaki price mentioned by a US dealer and a friend who had one made in Japan separately (so, from two reliable sources) Not sure about menuki.

Commissioned, they are $1500-3000. So be careful what you ask for )!