paulb

I am not sure if this is in the right place as it refers to a couple of swords I have listed in the "for sale" section. If it is misplaced I am sure the moderators will re-position it. I thought it would be inteteresting to re-awaken a pet subject of mine which is the quality that exists in the lesser known schools and which is too readily dismissed by those who slavishly follow the various bible references. In the the list I had two O-suriage blades, one papered to Echizen Seki the other to Kaga Katsuiye. The Katsuiye also has a sayagaki which attributes it to Yoshioka Ichimonji. Both of these swords were purchased by previous owners when out of polish and both believed there was a strong possibility they were Ichimonji. Once polished and papered they were considered by the NBTHK to be something else. When asked why the answers given were: 1. The Katsuiye has an ishimei boshi and the steel was dark 2. The Echizen blade had masame in the shinogi-ji. Interestingly the quality of neither was questioned. As a result of these attributions I was able to buy two beautiful swords and both have been the subject of various talks and papers I have given over the years to the Northern Token Soceity. The point of this ramble is that I strongly believe there are some seriously underated and undervalued swords in the market which we too readily dismiss because of the standard mantras coming out of Japan and amongst the older western collectors ( I think I might be one now!!) about northern province swords, rural schools etc etc. In all of these schools there were some very average work produced, however there were also some very fine work as well. I think it is a major mistake to dismiss such work just because someone did not rate it in the past. There are of course many parallels in other fields of art where work was dismissed out of hand only to achieve great recognition and value later on. These swords have been in my collection for some years and I have enjoyed them greatly. I have attached a couple of images, some not too good photos and an oshigata which i hope shows some of the activity that illustrates the quality of the work. regards Paul

Interesting looking sword. I can see why the jigane reminded you of Hizen work, but at a guess i would suggest this is a little earlier. The Nioi Guchi is relatively tight compared to other Hizen work and the hada has a lot in common with Yamashiro and Enju jigane. When you get the sword could you take some pictues of the boshi? on the image I looked at there was no turn-back visible and this would be unusual for Yamashiro, Enju or Hizen. As said befor interesting sword and beautiful hada. Well done regards Paulb

Hi George, Having had the advantage of seeing the whole blade (for a number of years) I would be extremely surprised if this was a modern piece. Everything about the blade looks koto or early Shinto, the hada, hamon et al just dont relate to gendaito. However there is trhe possibility that the nakago was refinsied at some time . their is a patch just above the mei which shows considerable age and is not in keeping with the crispness or colour of the nakago around the mei, hence the view it was applied later. As said above the comments on age are based on the hada and hamon and I have dug up some additional images from when I had the sword. See what you think.

I think if it was ato mei they would pink slip it but tell you who they thought made it (at least school and period) I am putting in a tachi which I am 99.999% sure is gimei but I can at least get the judges thoughts as to what it realy is. Who knows maybe the 0.001% chance is right and it is sho-shin!!

Hi Mark, I had this sword in my collection for a some years. I found 1 smith who signed this way in Hawley working around 1630s. But thats all I found. The workmanship looked older than that to me and after a lot of time with it I came the conclusion it was made earlier possibly the 1400s and the mei was added later. Sorry not to be much help but I hope you will get a lot from the sword, I certainly enjoyed studying it over a long time. regards Paul

Hi Jacques, you may well be right that the nakago has been aged artificially but what can you see in the image that leads you to that conclusion? I think this is one of those difficult areas (like re-tempering) that if the person knows what they are doing is very difficult to see, especially from pictures. So it is always useful to understand what you are seeing that convinces you this is wrong? thanks Paulb

Unless things have changed in recent months/weeks the NBTHK will not paper swords with Hagire regardless of maker. Recently Christies offered a Kiyomaru with an hagire to paraphrase their comment " Under current conditions the NBTHK will not issue a paper for swords with hagire, Mr. Tanobe confirmed that were it not for this fault in this lot it would have no problem in obtaining papers" So authentic, a big name but no papers. It does beg the question that if a Munechika, Masamune, Go etc appeared whether this would still hold true. Certainly they are more tolerent of faults on older blades (lack of boshi etc) I think hagire are possible a step too far. regards Paulb

major ones in recent year are Victoria State in Australia, Scotland and most recently England and Wales. Without the continuous efforts of many people over several years it would by now almost certainly be impossible to import buy or sell Japanese Swords in the UK. All of this legislation has been due to the medias insistance on using the term "Samurai Sword" every time someone was attacked with a sharp object, combined with a number of morons being able to buy replica swords for under $30 on the internet and then trying to kill each other with them. Forgive those of us who get twichy when people start talking about using swords for defence We have spent too many days, weeks and years debating with government to prove our interest had no relationship to the violenmt application (attack or defence) of swords. Regards Paulb

Hi Joe, I live 1 mile south of Hadrians wall so would be interested in a Scottish Token (Assuming you dont mind the odd Englishman!) If you contact me off board i have some notes from talks I have given in the past that might give you some ideas (or not) Regards Paulb

Hi Brian, Yes I agree with everything you say, and certainly after 25 years+ I am still much more comfortable buying blades with papers than without. I think all I was trying to get at is that the paper should not govern the value all it should do is confirm autheticity and condition. I admit that that can certainly improve the saleability.

Matt, where are you sending it for Shinsa? Unless something has changed recently if you send it to the NBTHK all they will tell you is that it is gimei. The NTHK (original group) will usually tell you what they think it is if they fail it. At least they did at the last London event they held. regards Paulb

Dear All I fear that as a group of students/collectors we are becoming paper obsessed. I think this is due mainly to the increased amount of Internet buying and the security we feel (rightly or wrongly) when buying work unseen but with a paper. The danger is that we start buying papers instead of swords. The commercial value of a blade is certanly enhanced when it receives a high level paper but that increase is incremental on the value of the same work unpapered not for comparison with other works. It is not unreasonable for a blade by a top smith with TH papers to be regarded as of higher value than a juyo blade attributed to a lesser school. For example a TH Rai Kunitoshi would I think command a lot higher price than a Juyo Naminohira (spelling!) or Mino senjuin work. The important factor regarding price is as always what someone is prepared to pay. This is generally governed by quality, rarity and importance of the artist within the history of the art form. It may be influenced by the papers it has but should not be dependent on them. regards Paulb

James It wasnt time wasting. And I am always nervous of things being labelled an obvious forgery (I think this is one though) These things are rarely black and white and need to be looked at and discussed, thats how we all learn. Tell us how you reached that conclusion. regards Paul

Hi James winning a sandai tadayoshi on ebay was extremely fortunate, to now have found an authentic Kiyomaru would make that pale in to insignificance. ( I would spontaneously combust in a fit of jealous rage) but no you are right it is not THE Kiyomaru. Just for information I think one his swords still holds the record price for a sword bought a either Sotherbeys or Christies. It was part of the Festing collection and sold (I beleive to Aoi-Art) for more than $450k DO you have any images of the whole blade?

Hi Brian, As far as I can see the most definitive feature of Sue-Aoe is the almost total lack of Nie. their hamon is described as tight exclusively nioi based. You then get the more vague references to colour of steel, shirrake utsuri rahter than Jifu etc. You are right about defining a period for chu-Aoe as almost every book uses a different time span. The greatest variation being from Chu-Aoe mid to late Kamakura and Sue Aoe being in the nambokucho to chu-Aoe mid Kamakura to end of Nambokucho and sue-Aoe being in the muromachi. Based on the majority view I think the first definition is more accurrate but that is purely opinion based on very limited exposure. It is interesting that when their neighbours in Bizen were taking on Soshu influence and incorporating nie in their jigane and hamon sue-Aoe were going in the opposite direction and becoming totally nioi based. Does anyone have a view as to why this might have happenned? regards Paulb

Chris, whereabouts in the UK are you? There are a couple of cpapble polishers in the UK. Please pm me for details regards Paulb

Hi Ted, Thanks for your reply. My exposure to Aoe "in hand" is equally limited but I have and am spending a lot of time studying a chu-Aoe piece dated to the end of the Kamakura. I agree regarding the meaning of "clarity" in steel it is hard to define. In ths case there is a mirror like blackness which appears to give depth to hada and from whch the nie stand out (sounds terrible but looks beautiful). There are also areas of jfu which produce a mistiness below the shinogi. The reason I asked the question is that whiteness in the steel seems to be a characteristic of sue-Aoe rather than chju. Unfortunately the timing of chu and sue seem blurred and differ depending on the reference. I will keep you posted if I make any progress. regards Paul

Hi Ted, interested in your comment that chu-Aoe lacked luster of ko-Aoe. I have been studying Aoe in some detail recently and at least 1 source, I think Nihonto Koza talks of the the steel of chui-Aoe being "clearer" than ko-Aoe. I assumed this meant brighter or deeper coloured. Could you describe your observation in a little more detail please? regards Paulb

Dear Koichi-san Am I right in translating Amari as remains or remaining? If so i assume this states the remains, or remaining part of an O-suriage mumei blade? again this would be an accurrate description of the blade in question. thank you for your continued assistance. regards Paulb

Thank you very much, the blade is certainly O-suriage and Mumei so I think that fits the bill Best regards Paulb

Darcy, I am currently doing a lot of work on Aoe. Chu-Aoe produced nagamaki. paulb

Dear All, Have been working with a colleague on translating a Sayagaki by Honami Kozon. Thanks more to his efforts than mine we have sorted out the attribution, the dimensions, the date of the attribution and Kozons mei. However there is a section in the middle that currently has us beaten. This is not helped by the Sosho style characters. Can anyone suggest what this might be? thanks in advance paulb

presumably those with $24500 to spend!!

Fantastic work Darcy and a very beautiful blade. The only negative is that if this is going to appear in Vol 3 I am guessing this will be the Yamashiro volume? Oh well I'll just have to be patient Keep up the good work (despite technical tribulations!)

Thank you Jacques I always forget to look in Fujishiro on my way to it now! Best Regards Paul