paulb

Etchu masatoshi is a well regarded smith and this looks to be a good sword. There appears to be some slight openness in the hada near the hamon but personally I would not regard this as too serious. The important thing is what do you think of it? Its your hard earned cash you are spending and the only opinion that truly matters is yours. IMHO I think this a good sword and reasonably priced. As many others here have done I have, over the past 10 years, bought swords and fittings from AOI-Art and have never been disappointed with my buys, infact some have been exceptionally good value (again in my opinion) Decide what you want from the sword you want to buy. Remember they are hand made and therefore likely to have some faults, especially after several hundred years. The faults on this one appear to be minor but again only you can decide if you can live with them. If I was still in to Shinto swords Masatoshi would be amongst my target smiths. hope this helps Paulb

Sorry Jacques I disagree. My understanding of a Hozon paper is that it states a blade is "worthy of preservation" For this to be true requires more of a blade than that it has an authentic signature and isnt cracked. It is true that the acceptable level of condition varies dependent on age and rarity but to suggest a signature and lack of hagire is sufficient justification to receive a hozon paper is I think an over simplification.

I understand that the European branch of the NBTHK will be producing the English translation. According to John Nandris the UK V.P for NBTHK Europe they hope the transition from the Japanese produced translation to the European one will be seamless. It may also open opportunities for specific references to be translated under commission from members. Regards paulb

I am sure Ian B will have a more detailed understanding of Snowshill and I think he has had contact from his time at the Armouries. However remembering a conversation I had some 20 years ago I was told that the house and collection was left to the National Trust but one of the conditions was that it be kept together and on display "As was". The original display room being a reconstruction of a Samurai camp before battle. From your description it sounds as though this may have been changed, whether for the aesthetic or conservation. Unfortunatley many such displays were assembled in country houses during the 19th century with goods from the Empire and more laterly from Japan as the country opened to 20th Century tourists. Many collectors of the day had little if any idea of the value of what they had. In fairness much of what they were sold were tourist pieces. The NT suffers the same problem as any other heritage body, funded largely by donation it has major problems meeting the maintenance costs of buildings and collections. I think they must get to the point of dreading being left another stately home to maintain. The issue is who else could look after the collection. I have the impression the Armouries are fully stretched with their own items so are many other museums. Most true restoration and conservation rests in the hands of private collectors. Unfortunately I dont think the National Trust are able to break up or sell the Snowshill collection. Paulb

As mentioned in an earlier thread I was able to go and see some of the swords on sale at both Bonhams and Christies. I was also surprised that the good swords did not generate more interest. I could not understand why the Kuniyasu Tachi failed to reach its low estimate of £40K when a Sukesada blade sold for £36k. Without detracting from the Sukesada the rarity of the Kuniyasu plus its Tokubetsu-Juyo rating should, I would have thought made it much more desirable. At the other auction the Rai Kunitoshi reached its lower estimate. Personally I did not find this a particularly attractive sword. It was described as Ubu although I note that in Clives description of the sale he said it was suriage. This would make more sense of both the fact it was mumei and a wakazashi (Kodachi). Maybe it was the lighting but I didnt see a great deal going on in it. There were some very fine blades at Christies and when you consider the sometimes astronomical figures reached by swords in the Mano collection sale and the fittings museum sale it is surpirising that these floundered. I think as Brian says it is indicative of the general market, notably many lots from other sections of both sales remained unsold. So it is just swords and fittings that are struggling at present.

Hi Goldy, Roger Robertshaw is very knowledgable on all things Tadayoshi and his opinions are usually very accurate. On first impressions and without refering to my books I would say it is either Gimei or a later generation. It is a good looking sword. The reason i am saying later generation is the lack of visible nie within the hamon and the jigane. Also the yasurimei are very indestinct (might be my eyes) I will check out against references and see if I can see anything more definitive. regards Paul

HI John, Yes I agree it is a high estimate. To be honest I have stopped trying to understand both auction houses estimates they dont seem to follow any logic. In the same sale is the Yoshimitus tanto which is also unpapered. It sold in 1992 for 22K US$ but is estimated in the auction at 25-35UKpounds more than double the 1992 price.

I think the concensus is Soshu possibly Hasebe Kunishige. It is thought to be an important Soshu work (but the catalogue doesnt say by whom)

Hi Joe, It is lot 227. It wasnt one I went to see but from the illustration on the catalogue it looks to be a good sword. It sold in 1992 in the compton sale for $30k so the estimate of £20-£25 is probably not too far off the mark. There has always been considerable debate about Gotobas participation in making blades. Some suggest he carried out or assited in the quenching process others that he played a greater part in the forging. I guess no one will ever know. If you can get to see the swords at Chrisites it would be worth the trip. You dont see many Tokubetsu Juyo (or Juyo come to that) in the UK so if nothing else it is a great learning experience. The only down side is you (I) come away lusting for things I will never be able to afford!! cheers Paul

I have just got back from spending an excellent day looking at a number of swords in both Bonhams and Christies forthcoming sale. it was an unforgetable experience. I went to look at 7 swords in the Christies sale and 3 in the Bonhams. I have to say that while some were frankly dissappointing the others were absolutely incredible. The highlights for me were: 1. Go Yoshihiro Tokubetsu Juyo. An incredible blade. You could spend years looking at and still find actvitiy you had missed. 2 Ichimonji Tachi Juyo- exactly what you would expect to see lively choji hamon, beautiful shape and in great condition. 3. Rai Kunimitsu Juyo an incredibly large and heavy blade (I guessed more than 8mm thick) and virtually untouched in its 600+ years history (other than being shortenned) The hada was as fresh as the day it was first polished and the shape was the robust nambokucho sugata you would expect from this period. An incredible thing. 4. Awataguchi Tachi Tokubetsu Juyo. This is truely difficult to describe. The clarity of the steel, the depth of colour the hada and the shape were all quiet, understated and exquisit. I confess that looking at this blade was as near to a spiritual experience as a certain middle aged agnostic has ever come. there were also 2 awatagichi tanto one signed Yoshimitsu which came from the Compton collection and a Yukimtsu Tachi with beautiful hada. There was as is often the case with both these auction houses some wide ranging and incosistant estimates on some of these pieces. It will be interesting to see where the sales take them. Whoever is fortunate enough to take any of the above mentioned blades away will have an incredible example of the swordsmiths art. regards Paulb

A sword supposedly by him is being sold in the forthcoming Christies Sale next week.

Hui Ian, wouldnt be surprised if the BBC got it wrong. They have done so far on everything to do with the subject. Every blade attack they have reported in the past 3-4 years has quoted a "Samurai Sword" as the weapon used when in reality everything from machetes to iron bars were the real weapon. Though I hate to say it the BBC are becoming as accurate as The Sun newspaper when it comes to not letting the truth get in the way of a good story!!

Ian, I am sorry but I think you are wrong. The defenses outlined in the amendment effectively offer exemptions for all Japanese swords made prior to 1954. This includes military swords as well as traditionally made blades. It was to protect collectors of Gunto that this defence was included. Therefore it is not illegal to import or sell military swords made before 1954. The problem comes when the Police or Customs officials get involved as they have recieved no guidance from the government and couldnt tell the difference between a pre 1954 blade and a chinese fake. Hopefully this will improve as they become more familiar with the new laws and what is and isnt exempt. Also there are efforts being made to help officials.

James, I think it depends on importance and rarity. for example there are Koto Pieces that have lost their boshi that have been given Juyo status and are illustrated in Nihonto Koza. At the other extreme Christies recently auctioned a Kiyomaru with an hagiri which they stated " Under current NBTHK rules this word cannot receive papers" Although I think the blade was authenticated by Tanobe-san. It used to be said that the NBTHK were more forgiving to historically important pieces than the NTHK. I am not sure this is still (or was ever) the case. A rough guide, if its koto and reasonable it stands more chance of papering than if its shinto and altered. regards Paul

Peter, Based on shape and nakago alone I think it likely to be late Koto to early Shinto, i.e. 16th to early 17th century. Without seeing more detail of hamon or hada I dont think I would try and tie it down further. rgeards Paul

Spoken like a true Frenchman Jean!! We English have always eliminated such thoughts of love and excitement with cold showers!!

I would like to pick up on a number of points Simon makes. I have emailed him directly but then thought there are some things we should all consider. 1. It is perfectly reasonable and indeed desirable that people new to the subject should feel free to ask for help. those of us that have been around along time recieved such help from others and should be prepared to offer help. 2. The manner in which people respond to such questions is, to say the least, off putting. I am always amazed with the ease with which supposedly knowledgable people are prepared to express an opinion as though it was an indesputable fact based usually on poor photographs. "it is" should be replaced by "I think it is". 3. In defence of those more knowlegable people it must be very frustrating to be presented with the same questions about the same subject time and again. Beginners should not use the board as a lazy short cut in place of study. Those of us who began our Nihonto career long before the internet was available and when the only book on the subject in English was Robinsons have had to put many hours in to gain at least some understanding of the subject. We are a very small community we need to help and ecourage all we can. This should be in a way that does not make people uncomfortable when they ask questions. We must also accept that if we make statements as if they were facts i.e. "It is definately Gimei" those with less knowledge will take it as a fact rather than an opinion. Therefore it is important that we make clear that what we say is just that, an opinion. There is a place for disagreement, constructive debate and argument in any study group, that is how we all learn. There should be no place for arrogance, sarcasm or rudeness, particualrly when being asked for help. I know its Sunday and I'm preaching (perhaps I missed my vocation) but please lets use the board for the benefit of all and not lose valuable members as a result of poor or arrogant communication. regards Paul

Martin, congratulations on a good looking and easy to navigate site. response times are great. I wish you success with it. Some nice pieces also I hope you continue to enjoy Iron sukashi tsuba!!

Hi Mark Will be interesting in seeing the result. If the Nakago is blade steel it suggests its o-suriage. If that is the case the original blade must have had an incredible degree of sori on it. hope you will be able to post some images and that you will submit it to the London Shinsa. It will be interesting to hear their view on it. regards Paul

Only one I can think of is the attached water colour of Kozan and Jirataro. The story of two eccentrics speaking their own langauge and laughing a lot reminded me of me and NTKS colleagues getting together. what particularly appealed with these two is their habit to abuse any stranger who seeing their jovial appearance made the mistake of saying hallo, only to recieve a stream of abuse in response! The grumpy old man approach seems to have an increasing amount of merit as I get older! Paul

Brian, I know exactly what you mean. I had a major row with my local force regarding safeguards for antique weapons handed in in the last knife amnesty. I finally took it up to the area chief constable having been given some patronising jobs worth response from the Inspector supposedly responsible. I have to say this whole episode has left me with an even lower opinion of government than I had before. I wish we could find a more sensible alternative.

Brian, It was a surprise when the term defence came up in the final document. The definitions for defences are a simplified version of the exemptions offerd by various groups. My understanding is that a "Defence" is actually stronger than exemption. It means that there is no case to answer if the sword in question is made within the defence definition. Also remember that this is additional to existing legislation which already hold exemptins for antique weapons over 100 years old. As said when first posting the above from documents put to Parliament, this is unworkable, ineffective and a waste of tax payers time and money. It will make absolutely no difference to violent crime in the UK (2 more teenagers murdered in London this week with knives and by other teenagers) However as it stand it has a minimal amount of impact on those involved in the collection and study of swords or practioners of martial arts. Accepting that once the government said they were going to do something they would never turn back we had to try and minimise the impact of what amounted to headline grabbing politics. I think all parties involved did a great job in getting the defences in place. And as a result we are able to continue with the much loved study and conservation of Nihon-To

Choices would be as follows: A= Awataguchi Tachi B= Awataguchi Tanto by Yoshimitsu C= Echizen-Seki I have seen very few Awataguchi blades but each one has said something. George Cameron Stone described the Japanese sword as "The nearest thing to perfection made by the human hand" I think he must have been looking at an Awataguchi blade when he said it. On the premise that every school had its masterpieces I have seen some stunning swords atributed to very unpopular schools such as Echizen Seki, Bungo Takada et al. Who made it is secondary to the quality of the end result. Paul

There is nothing in the added revision that refers to antiques. Please remember this is an addition to existing legislation, the offensive weapons act of 1988. This act specifies that antiques over 100 years old are exempt from the act. I double checked this with the Home Office who confirmed that antique non-Japanese blades were covered by this existing exemption. regards paul

not sure what the average wage was just after the war but £5 represented a considerable sum. You could buy a house in Surrey for £300 (lowest now is probably nearer £250,000). Admitedly even allowing for vast inflation swords are more expensive now than they were then, this is due in no small part to the increased awareness and information available on the web. New collectors always feel they have missed the boat, I did when I bought my first Showa-to in 1983 for £225. I lusted after blades that cost £1000. The reality is that unless you belong to the super-rich 5% you always start at the low end of the market and gradually refine your collection as experience grows.