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Ubu Mumei Koto Bizen Uchigatana Or Shinto Ishido?

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#1 Travis Clarke

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Posted 13 February 2015 - 12:09 AM

Hey guys,

 

A friend of mine recently sent me this sword to look over.  He's had it for several years now under the assumption that it is Shinto Ishido School work.  That was the opinion of the togishi that last worked on it.  It very well could be Ishido work.

 

Last week I posted this sword on a Nihonto Facebook group and started a decent discussion.  I've had quite a few very good and informative opinions on this sword so far.  Some suggested it could also be a ubu Koto Bizen Uchigatana.  Before I thoroughly examined this sword and asked around a bit, I originally thought it was O-suriage.  The yaki-dashi and second mekugi-ana threw me off.  I figured I would post it on NMB and get a few more opinions.  A much broader audience here on the NMB.

 

This sword has recently been returned to its owner.  He plans to send it away for a new shira-saya and papers soon.  Any and all opinions are welcome.  Thanks.

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Regards,
Travis Clarke

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#2 Travis Clarke

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Posted 13 February 2015 - 12:16 AM

Few more photos.

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Regards,
Travis Clarke

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#3 nagamaki - Franco

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Posted 13 February 2015 - 12:50 AM

Hey guys,

 

A friend of mine recently sent me this sword to look over.  He's had it for several years now under the assumption that it is Shinto Ishido School work.  That was the opinion of the togishi that last worked on it.  It very well could be Ishido work.

 

Thanks.

 

  Shinto Ishido School work is quite a reasonable call considering the shape, the hamon almost touching the shinogi in the monouchi, the tight-er hada, along with other details. Don't see Koto Bizen here.

 

P.S. nice clear images, camera? lighting?


_________
Regards,

Franco

#4 jason_mazzy

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Posted 13 February 2015 - 02:21 AM

yes camera and lighting help please.


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#5 Travis Clarke

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Posted 13 February 2015 - 08:04 AM

Hey guys,

I use a Nikon D3200 with the stock 18-55mm VR lens. As for lighting, I use a desk lamp I purchased from Ikea with a 60w bulb. I usually take photos in my office with potlighting throughout. Also, I don't shine my desk lamp directly onto the blade. I manipulate the light and reposition the sword until I am able to draw out all the activity in the steel. And judging by the feedback, I'm not doing too bad of a job. Thanks.
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Regards,
Travis Clarke

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#6 Brian

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Posted 13 February 2015 - 06:51 PM

I would go with ubu, not o-suriage. The hi and nakago patina don't lend themselves to suriage, neither do the sugata.
I also don't see a lot of Koto Bizen there. Hada looks tight, wouldn't be surprised if it came back Shinto at all. Nice thick nie too.

 

Brian


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#7 Travis Clarke

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Posted 14 July 2015 - 05:17 AM

Greetings,

Just a little update. This sword has been professionally re-polished and submitted to NTHK Shinsa in Japan. The verdict.......Sue Koto Bizen. Either Katsumitsu or Kiyomitsu. I'm only getting bits of information so far. I'll update this thread again when I find out more.
Regards,
Travis Clarke

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#8 hxv

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Posted 14 July 2015 - 06:21 AM

How interesting and unexpected! I was thinking Shinto Ishido surely, especially given the flamboyant hamon and how the boshi is not a continuation of the hamon. Thank you for sharing, Travis.

Regards,
Hoanh

#9 Hamfish

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Posted 14 July 2015 - 07:14 AM

the double mekugi ana is pure sue koto sukasada, but the im just a stunned as everyone else with kiyomitsu/katsamitsu

 

why is this not signed, its far higher then most sue period blades

 

regards H


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#10 Hamfish

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Posted 14 July 2015 - 08:12 AM

hamon looks simular,

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#11 Jean

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Posted 14 July 2015 - 01:25 PM

Shinto Ishido
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#12 Brian

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Posted 14 July 2015 - 04:43 PM

Yeah.....

I'm not getting Sue Bizen Koto. Oh well... :dunno:
They know far more than me...

 

Brian


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#13 Brian Ayres

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Posted 14 July 2015 - 06:54 PM

I would love to see pics of the new polish and the difference. As a newbie I ask why a blade that appeared to be in full polish would be redone.
Best Regards,

Brian Ayres

#14 SwordGuyJoe

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Posted 14 July 2015 - 07:14 PM

Regardless, that's a beauty! What did it score?

#15 Jim P

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Posted 18 July 2015 - 08:50 AM

When this was posted I had a look and thought Sue Koto Bizen why ? I had seen  a Sukesada that looked like this blade it was on Adrian"s samuraiantiques not that long ago. Some of the oz members may remember it, the one with the yellow saya. But its not on the site now. :)


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#16 Travis Clarke

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Posted 21 July 2015 - 04:59 AM

Hey guys,

Here's my newest bit of information regarding this sword.

Bizen Osafune Katsumitsu, Eisho (1504-1521).

I think it scored around 75-76 points.
Regards,
Travis Clarke

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#17 Travis Clarke

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Posted 19 August 2016 - 05:03 AM

Hey Guys,

 

Here are a few more photos of the Katsumitsu piece we discussed earlier.   It has recently been polished by a top rank polisher in Japan.

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Travis Clarke

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#18 Jean

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Posted 19 August 2016 - 09:23 AM

Superb Travis
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#19 vajo

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Posted 19 August 2016 - 10:13 AM

What a beauty...


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#20 Jacques D.

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Posted 19 August 2016 - 10:18 AM

Nie deki, many tobiyaki, roundish gunome no nioi ashi  : not a shinto Ishido

 

 

Nakago, boshi :  not a koto Bizen



#21 Stephen

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Posted 19 August 2016 - 10:27 AM

not Katsumitsu , id expect tight crabclaw hamon. More swirling hada.


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#22 Jean

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Posted 19 August 2016 - 11:28 AM

The blade is machi okuri and probably slightly suriage. I had a Tadamitsu slightly suriage with such kind of nakago jiri. Concerning the boshi, no opinion as thousands of Bizen swords were produced, but it looks like that NTHK jury has seen such kind of boshi on sue Bizen blades.
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#23 paulb

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Posted 19 August 2016 - 12:58 PM

something that might help the assessment. I was recently looking at a number of Bizen NBTHK kantei. From their description I noted the following:

it there is a tight nioi-guchi, tight itame hada with some nagare, masame in the shinogi-ji and the blade is thick  it is unlikely to be koto but most likely shinto or shin-shinto.

The best way I found to differentiate between Ishido smiths is to look closely at the boshi. There are a number that produce very distinctive shapes.

In your pictures ( in which it looks to be  a very nice sword BTW) I cant see the boshi clearly nor can I tell how difuse the nioiguchi is, that probably has more to do with me than the sword, the polish or the images :)

Also the dimensions and shape will offer further clues.



#24 Stephen

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Posted 19 August 2016 - 01:34 PM

Katsumitsu den

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#25 nagamaki - Franco

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Posted 19 August 2016 - 01:40 PM

Hey guys,

Here's my newest bit of information regarding this sword.

Bizen Osafune Katsumitsu, Eisho (1504-1521).

I think it scored around 75-76 points.

 

 

Hmm ..... http://www.sanmei.co...S5501_PUP_E.htm


_________
Regards,

Franco

#26 Travis Clarke

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Posted 21 August 2016 - 12:39 AM

Hey guys,

 

Here are a few of the swords measurements.    I appreciate the comments and discussion so far.

 

Nagasa: 61cm

Sori: 1.3cm

Kasane: 0.8cm (Yokote Kasane: 0.5cm)

Mihaba (machi): 3.1cm

Mihaba (yokote): 2cm

 

 


Regards,
Travis Clarke

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