Storing Swords Vertically

[bmlusk1911]

While I am sure to draw some ire for this post, I will still play the "I've been studying Nihonto less than a year...." / Stupid Question allowed card for this purpose....

 

While I am planning on building a Katana Dansu to store my swords, my wife brought up some good points after asking the question, "Why not store them in a gun safe?" Her points were:

 

1. If someone breaks in, they may not be able to break into the Dansu, but may attempt to carry it off to find what treasures it holds, or trash the padlocks trying to get into it. When I mentioned just bolting it down like a gun safe.....well, it got vetoed and I got "the look." But, she did have a good point of if a locked dansu is around, anyone breaking in might think "ooh, there's jewelry in there!"

 

2. When we have kids, we don't want to see little fingers chopped off. Her because of maternal instincts, me because I don't want to have to clean blood off my swords. If the kids didn't have the fear of Dad preventing this, I still think it would be a rapidly self correcting behavior.... The doctor's bills would cut into the New Sword Fund though.

 

While I know Katana were traditionally stored horizontally, is there any mechanical reason why they should not be stored vertically?

 

I would think the weight of the blade would rest on the Habaki instead of the Kissaki, so it shouldn't dull or chip the Kissaki.

 

I remember reading somewhere (perhaps on NMB) the choji oil could accumulate in kojiri end of the saya, but I would think there wouldn't be enough choji oil on my blades to really cause that significant a problem if all.

 

So, is there any problems with storing swords vertically?

[drdata]

An interesting question. As you likely know, tachi stands do store the sword more or less vertically, but oddly with the tsuka down. This arrangement always stuck me as odd; wonder if also related to oil and pooling, but if that much oil is about I see a mess regardless of what end is down.

 

Regards

[Brian]

Tradition and "pooling oil" aside... I bet there are many thousands of swords stored vertically inside of gun safes. In some counties, it is a legal requirement.

Not the best way of storing them, but I don't think you are going to do major damage to your sword by storing it vertically.

 

Brian

[Clive Sinclaire]

Gentlemen

This is a good question for a relatively new collector (and father?) to ask.

My swords live in a relatively stable and constant temperature with quite low humidity and I prefer to keep them dry of oil for most of the time although I must admit that if we get a very humid summer, I do apply liberal applications of choji-abura. Here it is important not to let it dry out on the blade so it needs regularly checking. I also have all swords lying horizontal or on katana-kake in my tatami sword room. In fact there is also a vertical gun safe in that room, but it is full of guns. I believe it is inadvisable to store swords vertically, more or less for the reasons already given. I think this is particularly relevant to swords kept in koshirae where the oil might gather dust or dirt in the bottom of the saya.

I keep a tachi on a tachi-kake next to an armour, and although this is verical the tsuka is at the bottom, as previously mentione

 

As for children, I guess this is all about how they are brought up from the start (the same with wives!). Mine were always in a kendo / Japanese cultural atmosphere and, before the sword room was built, the swords were always at floor level and easily touchable by the kids, but they never touched a sword unless I was present. On one occasion that I recall, when the eldest was about 6 years old and had friends around, I remember him telling them in strident tones, not to touch or go near the swords and to speak to me if they were interested!

 

Regards and a Happy Shin-nen

Clive Sinclaire

[rkg]

Hi,

 

Amsec used to make a gun safe that lays flat (amsec hc1854), though they seem to have stopped making them - I have one, and it works great for swords - maybe you could find

a used one or something...

 

Here's a pic, though you originally could get them w/o the funky seat built over it:

 

http://www.safeshowroom.com/eshop/10Exp ... ode=HC1854

 

Maybe you could get one of the custom guys to make you either something like this or a Very Deep safe with a pull-out to hold your swords so they can lay flat.... (this might not be too

bad, as a lot of the cost is based on the door size and you can have a really tiny door - I was looking at this a long time ago to build something to store polearms, but decided it wasn't really

worth it...).

 

I also know people that use those giant double door safes, and apparently the Japanese have nifty safes for sword storage as well.

 

And a lot of people just store them vertically in a normal gun safe (probably your least expensive option...).

 

As far as security goes, you really are probably most worried about fire - pretty much all of them that you can't cut open with an axe/sledge and that weigh more than 400 pounds or so will defeat the door kicker types, and none of them will hold up very long to a determined pro (either they will open it, or convince you to by holding a gun to you or the wife's or kids' head(s) ).

 

Camouflage (you can build that nifty dansu around the safe if you want)/and avoiding people knowing what you have are your friends....

 

Good Luck with your choice...

 

Best,

 

rkg

(Richard George)

 

EDIT: P.S. Obviously pretty much anything with a lock can keep prying little fingers away from your pieces, though as Clive pointed out, teaching them respect for the pieces

from an early age is also a Really Good idea

[runagmc]

I have stored swords vertically and saya down before without any problems at all. Here's a sketch to show some points you might want to consider. If you need to (because of climate) leave a lot of oil on your swords, I would advise against vertical storage for the reasons stated.

[David Flynn]

I've been collecting for 20yrs and have always stored my swords vertically. Most of my friends store theirs vertically as well.

[bmlusk1911]

The fire proof aspect also appealed to me, and was a point I considered.

 

I'm not concerned about door kicker hoodlum types while me and the wife are at home (thank you 2nd Amendment, CATM, and concealed carry laws!) I'd be more concerned about the 25 minutes of confusion before the security company can figure out an alarm is real and get a cop to my house while I'm away.

 

I do believe a Dansu would be too heavy to simply carry off if it was solid Sapele (African Mahogany and a preference of mine) or similar wood lined with Paulownia.

 

Not a father yet, but my wife brought up the future kids as another reason to lock up the swords.

 

My personal armory (about 30 guns, including a .500 S&W Magnum, a S&W M&P-15, Saiga-12, etc.) is currently in safes in an alarmed room. Whenever a mini-me shows up, I'll probably use the same logic my father used when bringing me up around guns.

 

Point #1 (Respect your father): "If you touch one of my guns without my permission, you better hope you're dead before I find out!" "Roger that, Pop, don't touch the guns!"

 

Point #2 (Respect the power of the weapon): Mr. Chili Can is harder than your head. Pop let me shoot said can of chili. "See what a little .22 will do to your head?" Roger that, Pop!

 

Similar demonstrations with Tatami could likely be readily arranged.

[Toryu2020]

Dear all -

I would vote against vertical storage. Yes in dry places like California you can get away with it but;

 

Storing vertically means the habaki, which is a wedge, drives down on the koiguchi and for shirasaya this often means a spilt. A proper shirasaya is made for horizontal storage and minimizes the points where the blade touches the wood.

 

A vertical blade means any oil drains toward the tip, the little resevoir at the end of the saya gets sticky it then attracts dust, this then stains the tip of the blade. Take a good look at swords you encounter and see how many have the first few millimeters discoloured. No crime for a gunto perhaps but a shame if your sword is in polish.

 

Things are done the way they are because they have been tested over time - not my idea but you might look into fire-proof horizontal file-cabinets, lockable and at the same time inconspicuous...

-t

[Jacques]

Hi,

 

A vertical blade means any oil drains toward the tip, the little resevoir at the end of the saya gets sticky it then attracts dust, this then stains the tip of the blade

 

IMHO a vertical blade must always be stored on its kashira (nakago downwards).

[Bugyotsuji]

This is a Western question, isn't it.

 

Japan being an earthquake-prone country, people probably preferred the katana-kake with its lower center/centre of gravity and greater stability, and katana-dansu when shut away.

 

Upright looks good, but more for temporary display?

 

On upright display equipment I have seen in Japan there have sometimes been strings attached part-way up to stop things flying around.

[Rich S]

I've stored my swords vertically in a gun safe for over 40 years. No problems, of course I store them dry - no oil (or at best only a slight bit of choji oil if recently polished). Still no problems with "pooling" or rust. I keep them at around 70-75 degrees F, and 30-35 % humidity (no cracking of lacquer saya, etc).

 

Rich S

[Pete Klein]

Why not just have the safe installed on it's back or side? It would make a rather interesting coffee table...

 

PS: how the Japanese do it: http://www.kuriharakinko.com/houzou.htm

[runagmc]

Storing vertically means the habaki, which is a wedge, drives down on the koiguchi and for shirasaya this often means a spilt. A proper shirasaya is made for horizontal storage and minimizes the points where the blade touches the wood.

I don't see how it would be any different from storing horizontally in this aspect. The habaki should always be fully seated anyway. Also, the pressure from the habaki wedging into the koiguchi should be mainly on the edges(ha and mune) part of the habaki, so it doesn't split the saya.