Rich T Posted February 28, 2007 Report Posted February 28, 2007 One for the tsuba buffs. All, a recent acquisition is this sukashi tsuba with a Yukiwa no Kasa theme ( circular snow flakes and a parasol ). There is also a single Karegane ( wild geese ) in there as well. The tsuba has an NBTHK Tokubetsu Kicho kanteisho to Kyo Sukashi. But in closer study, this guard looks very much like Kyo Shoami. The heavier set and general theme and balance are leading me to that conclusion. The tsuba has a rich brown patina and the scan does it little justice. I would think this from the early to mid Edo period. It's dimensions are 80mm x 78mm x 5.5mm So my question is, was there cross over between Kyo sukashi and Kyo shoami, I feel there is generally enough to tell the two schools apart but there is always something new to surprise us I guess. I guess I am asking, does this look typical of Kyo Sukashi ? Best wishes Richard Turner Quote
Rich S Posted February 28, 2007 Report Posted February 28, 2007 I would have thought Kyo-Shoami as well. The extent of 3 dimensionality reminds me much more of Kyo-Shoami than of Kyo-sukashi. Rich S Quote
Brian Posted February 28, 2007 Report Posted February 28, 2007 Rich, We all know I know little about tsuba, but I am trying to learn I really like this tsuba. To me the lower right seems typically kyo-sukashi, but that parasol with the more 3 dimensional carving is very striking and non-typical to me. That single goose (upper right?) also seems typically kyo-sukashi (and akasaka?) and not shoami. It certainly doesn't appear totally kyo-sukashi, so there has to be some other influence in there. I don't know much about kyo-shoami, so won't take a guess at the influence. It's a pity it is mumei. Very nice though. Ah well..may all be nonsense that I typed, but I find if you don't stick your neck out, you don't learn as much :D Regards, Brian Quote
sencho Posted February 28, 2007 Report Posted February 28, 2007 Hi Rich, Interesting that you say the theme is "Yukiwa no Kasa (circular snow flakes and a parasol )" something just occurred to me It would seem by design that in early to mid Edo period the maker would have to have some knowledge of the structure of a snowflake to make this design. A snowflake is typically hexagonally symmetrical and the idea of that structure is there on Rich's tsuba, even though it is structurally incorrect with too many arms (if you were actually able to see the whole of each flake). Flakes of snow were only examined (I believe) with the advent of microscopes, and most images are from Electron microscopes. Does this mean that the maker made a bloody good guess at what a snow flake really looked like, or the design is something else? By the way... very nice tsuba Rich!!! :D Cheers! ....PS... you think you type nonsense, Brian...? :lol: Quote
John A Stuart Posted March 1, 2007 Report Posted March 1, 2007 Hi Rich, At first glance it seems to be kyo-sukashi but they are so darn close that it takes a better trained eye to id the characteristics than mine. The wee goose seems to be there just as convention. When as a young fellow I looked at snowflakes on my glove. Those big flakes you get on those windless snowey days had an easy to see structure, so not to hard to imitate in steel. I have seen quite a few renditions in a star-like form that do not portray a snowflake as well. John Quote
Stephen Posted March 1, 2007 Report Posted March 1, 2007 with John on this, snowflakes of my childhood was very visible to the eye, maybe Nigel is not from snow country, with this next storm coming in ill try for a shot or two to see if it will photo. Quote
Rich T Posted March 1, 2007 Author Report Posted March 1, 2007 thanks Stephen. And thanks everyone for their comments, I think Rich Stein hit the biggest nail on the head. Just for comparison, I found this NBTHK papered Shoami tsuba on a site in Japan. Here is a comparison pic and a link. http://www.katanadouraku.com/codougu3/c-04.html Rich Quote
John A Stuart Posted March 1, 2007 Report Posted March 1, 2007 Sure looks to be done by the same hand even. The biggest difference is the mimi has no step to it like yours. No karegane as well. John Quote
sencho Posted March 1, 2007 Report Posted March 1, 2007 Hi John and Stephen, yes you are right of course.... the Snow crystals which display the hexagonal shape, are typically 0.5 to 5 millimetres ( 0.02 to 0.20 inches) in size. Snow flakes, which are lots of crystals clumped to gether get bigger and occasionally exceed 50 mm (2 inches), but these do not exibit a structured form. The biggest snowflake, reportedly measuring 38 cm (15 inches) by 20 cm (8 inches); fell on January 28, 1887 at Fort Keough, Montana. I knew snow flakes got big.... I didn't realise the snow crystals (which is the sturcture we all know) go that big.... 5 mm is definitely big enough to see with the naked eye... Yes Stephen... not much snow in Flodida.... and generally in England just some slush coming down!! Never been in Japan in the snow... Once again... nice tsuba... Thanks for the info about Kyo Sukashi and Kyo Shoami.... it got me hitting the books looking up what you all were talking about!!! Thanks for the education! :D Cheers Quote
Bungo Posted March 1, 2007 Report Posted March 1, 2007 kyo sukashi ? Kyo Shoami ? I reckon on a good day it would be called the former. Sort of like a mumie sword with utsuri............ on a good day it may be attributed to Bizen, on a bad day they may call it Bungo. p.s. another example........... http://www.esnips.com/web/tsuba kyo79.jpg some call this Kyo Shoami. Either way is fine as long as you like the design. milt the ronin Quote
Pete Klein Posted March 2, 2007 Report Posted March 2, 2007 My gut hunch on this piece is Kyo Shoami. The kaku mimi is atypical of Kyo (although not unheard of) and the theme is a bit more Shoami. Metal is hard to tell from the scan but the larger rounded shape of the seppadai and heavier hitsu ana sukashi are a bit more Shoami along with the drop in the carving of the sukashi from the mimi. The hitsu ana form -- the kogai-bitsu being somewhat smaller than the kozuka and a bit narrowed in form make me think early Edo. I have a feeling it originally had gold nunome on the umbrella surface as accent which would also be Kyo Shoami (the metal has a somewhat grayed look and I've noticed this on pieces from which the gold has been lost, possibly due to the method of attachment -- hakutokin perhaps with the graying from the mercury -- also there is no crosshatching apparent). Just some random thoughts -- the papers from that era sometimes reflect an older thinking so the attribution might be off to today's. Quote
Rich T Posted March 2, 2007 Author Report Posted March 2, 2007 the colour is all rich dark brown Pete, the scan is misleading, there is no gray at all, that shading is a result of refraction from the scanner is all. I don't think there was ever any nunome on this piece but that's my hunch. Thanks for the thoughts though. I agree with the majority of them. Rich Quote
Pete Klein Posted March 2, 2007 Report Posted March 2, 2007 I had a feeling I'd seen this somewhere recently. It is in Tsuba-no-bi. I've also seen it with the nunome but I can't find it in my references yet. Possibly it was on a sales site at some point. This is attributed to mid-Edo. Quote
Rich T Posted March 2, 2007 Author Report Posted March 2, 2007 in fact my tsuba was sold with a copy of the book, but they are not the same. The most basic difference in my Karegane ( geese ) and this has a snowflake or goard or something in it's place. Also, mine has sekigane, the punch marks are different, and more subtle differences, but yes, it is very close. I used another scanner and came up with a different result, the colour is closer here and also the tusba is slightly Migaki-ji so the uneveness in colour is a result of that. The darker patches at the bottom on the mimi (left hand scan) are more like the natural colour in hand. Cheers mate Rich Quote
Pete Klein Posted March 2, 2007 Report Posted March 2, 2007 Are you sure it's not chidori? Awful small for karigane. Quote
Rich T Posted March 2, 2007 Author Report Posted March 2, 2007 but I think Karegane as it is winter related. If it were an Owari tsuba or earlier (Muromachi/Momoyama), the size may be an issue but it feels like the bird is high in the air to me, and small as a result. That might just be my over active imagination of course :-) Rich Quote
Pete Klein Posted March 3, 2007 Report Posted March 3, 2007 High huh -- methinks birdie tis not alone! LOL Quote
Nobody Posted March 3, 2007 Report Posted March 3, 2007 I had a feeling I'd seen this somewhere recently. It is in Tsuba-no-bi. I've also seen it with the nunome but I can't find it in my references yet. Possibly it was on a sales site at some point. This is attributed to mid-Edo. As for the motif, the explanation for the attached image says "Ichimegasa (市女笠) and Yukiwa (雪輪)". However, I think that the explanation is incorrect. Ichimegasa is a something like a hat shown on the 2nd photo. And I think that the parasol may be more like Nodategasa (野点傘), which is a sunshade usually used at outdoor tea ceremony. See the 1st photo. Quote
Rich T Posted March 3, 2007 Author Report Posted March 3, 2007 Hi Koichi, thank you for that information. The papers have been translated with Yukiwa Kasa Sukashi Tsuba 雪輪傘透鍔 I agree it is obviously a Parasol or Umbrella. Cheers Rich Quote
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