Museum quality tsuba versus daily wear tsuba

[Dan tsuba]

Collecting tsuba is a very interesting and educational hobby.

Each collector has his own reasons for collecting his specific type of tsuba.

Some collectors seem to collect tsuba that are expensive museum quality type tsuba (and those types of tsuba have been shown recently on this forum). Which is great for them, and if I wanted to I could afford to purchase a museum quality type tsuba.  Now whether those museum quality type tsuba were ever mounted on a blade or used for other than royal court appearances is unknown.

Remember that probably many samurai had more than one tsuba for each of their blades.  Maybe one for royal court appearances, maybe one for daily wear, and maybe one for battles.

I, on the other hand, prefer to collect tsuba that show their age and have probably actually been mounted on a blade and carried on a daily basis.

It is similar to a collector of 1873 model Colt revolvers.

In the first picture shown below is a presentation 1873 model Colt.  It has probably never been fired or carried in a holster.  The selling price was started at $50,000 dollars.

The second picture is an 1873 model colt.  It shows signs of use and wear and was more than likely put in a holster for daily carry.  The selling price was about $3,500 dollars.

Collecting tsuba (for some) may be all about purchasing the most expensive tsuba that they can afford (maybe museum quality tsuba that may have never been mounted or carried for very long on a blade).

But to some, it may be that they collect tusba (that are not museum quality pieces and are not super expensive) because those tsuba they collect were probably actually used and carried on a daily basis and thus are a link (both real and maybe spiritual) to the daily lives of the wearer and user of the piece.

Just my opinion.

 

[Spartancrest]

I don't like some "museum quality tsuba" 

 

  Museum of Vancouver  DB 403

 

    The Rijksmuseum [Amsterdam] has an authentic frog tsuba and one of the cast fakes.    AK-MAK-1077   &    AK-MAK-1063 

 

 

  Ashmolean Museum [Oxford] EA1956.2093

 

   Maidstone Museum

 

Plus there is another in the V&A M.1933-1931     

 

and they have this thing listed as well!!!     M.740-1931    

Museum QUALITY?? 

Edited December 10, 2025 by Spartancrest
More images

[Matsunoki]

“Museum quality” means absolutely nothing. Knowledge determines the understanding of quality, not what some museum displays show us…..stuff they were left eons ago that they neither understand nor try to understand.

Of course, there are some specialist exceptions but mostly I have little time for museums.

Fine quality things are safest in collectors hands.

[Robert S]

15 hours ago, Spartancrest said:

I don't like some "museum quality tsuba" 

 

  Museum of Vancouver  DB 403

 

Ha ha - it would be in the "Museum of Vancouver" - a Museum that even many people in Vancouver don't know exists.  Next time I'm over there I may have to check in and see what the acquisition date was.

[Robert S]

I do take Dan's point, though.  There clearly are some tsuba that were designed purely as art objects, without any significant intent of them being mounted.  For me, that's not the issue, though.  I'm more concerned with personal aesthetic values.  A lot of those "art object" tsubas are flashy, extraordinary examples of craftsmanship, but not my cup of tea :-)

[cluckdaddy76]

36 minutes ago, Robert S said:

I do take Dan's point, though.  There clearly are some tsuba that were designed purely as art objects, without any significant intent of them being mounted.  For me, that's not the issue, though.  I'm more concerned with personal aesthetic values.  A lot of those "art object" tsubas are flashy, extraordinary examples of craftsmanship, but not my cup of tea :-)

I agree completely, even though they are beautiful works of art, I tend to prefer iron. Especially very late Edo and Meiji pieces do not appeal to me very much. I do have a handful of soft metal tsuba , but I believe most of mine are older than late Edo. Here is one that has been set carefully at least twice, not sure that this museum grade as posted in the topic, but I also feel it is not too flashy either.

 

Jason

[cluckdaddy76]

I believe the carving on the plate is supposed to be rain, anyone else have a different thought?

[ROKUJURO]

Jason,

I don't think so. Would not be typical with flowers and flying insects. Rain is mostly not falling vertically in images.

[Charlie C]

What is 'museum grade' is really arbitrary, but I do agree that joy can be found in tosogu with heavy wear or in mint state. If the former one, I would imagine the warriors fighting with them on the battlefield (especially for those made before the Edo era); if the latter one, I would imagine they were made and cared for with extra attention and may have been appreciated during tea sessions or holiday parties

[Hector]

I don't think samurai ever thought in such terms - certainly not 'museum quality'.

If you were aristocracy, you inherited masterpieces; if you were a super wealthy merchant you commissioned super expensive 'bling'.

Functional pieces were just that - functional, additional decoration was down to wallet, then taste.

 

Ive read the very long debate on cast tsuba and I truly can't believe that anyone but the most down at heel bushi would knowingly endanger their lives by using those as they'd shatter on impact with an opponent's blade. Better an ugly, hammered and heat treated plain disk than a decorated accident waiting to happen.

Even in the supposedly 'peaceful', hedonistic years of the Edo period, there were still duels, vendettas and bad asses out looking for a fight by being deliberately rude or smacking their saya against someone else's (give a man a weapon and he'll find an excuse to use it). So we can't conveniently say that practicality and functionality both took a backseat throughout the Edo period.

 

However, returning to the original question (if I understand it correctly), then yes, I would always prefer a tsuba which is hand forged, has been mounted, shows signs of use, and is at least restorable by removing active rust with bone and ivory.

 

I can certainly appreciate the exquisite workmanship of late Edo and Meiji period pieces but they are just not my thang in terms of both taste and pocket money. It's like owning a Lamborghini; I can't afford it, I'd be afraid to scratch it if I could and the only guys you see driving around in them in Tokyo are ostentatious old rich pricks driving their 19-year-old trophy girlfriends and revving the engine at traffic signals. 😂

 

Hector C

[Infinite_Wisdumb]

5 hours ago, cluckdaddy76 said:

I believe the carving on the plate is supposed to be rain, anyone else have a different thought?

Sick. I love it

[Bugyotsuji]

40 minutes ago, Infinite_Wisdumb said:

Sick. I love it

Well give him a heart! 

[mareo1912]

I like frogs...

 

But yes, often what is seen in museums includes the donated "trashy" pieces of a century ago. Most good pieces in museums derive from big, important (&knowledgeable) collectors of Japanese art in the early 1900s and there were not too many. Hamburg Museum has some great ones, as well as Oxford collection. Other museums too of course.

But then there were also other collectors which focused on other Japanese or Asian works, but for the sake of completeness also had some Tosogu - these are often questionable items.

[Jake6500]

9 hours ago, cluckdaddy76 said:

I believe the carving on the plate is supposed to be rain, anyone else have a different thought?

I can see how you thought rain. Wood is another possibility maybe.

 

Nice tsuba, not my type of motif but definitely my type of aesthetic as a soft metal collector.

[Dan tsuba]

Again, comparing collectible Colt revolvers to collectible tsuba (yes, I really like Colt revolvers!).

The amount of craftsmanship on some museum quality tsuba is superb and breathtaking.

They are beautiful and a testament to the artistic capabilities of their makers.

I love looking at pictures of them.

Why?  Because I could never afford them!  So, I must appreciate them from afar!

Just like Colt revolvers!

The first picture shown below is of a superbly crafted and artistic model 1851 Colt.

The next picture shown is of a model 1851 Colt that I could afford!

Although both revolvers perform the same functionality.

Just like highly artistic tsuba compared to more plain looking tsuba.

I guess if I ever win the lottery, I will upgrade my collection of tsuba!

 

 

[Dan tsuba]

I just watched a video (what I consider super great!) about tsuba at the N.Y. Metropolitan Museum of Art.

They show (and explain about) some beautiful tsuba!

The enthusiasm shown by the two people that are in that video is infectious!

Thanks, Brian, for posting that video!

The video can be found here-

https://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/54438-nice-video-on-tsuba-from-the-ny-met-adam-savage/

 

[Graybadger]

On 12/10/2025 at 3:49 PM, cluckdaddy76 said:

I believe the carving on the plate is supposed to be rain, anyone else have a different thought?

Jason, I believe this is representing a waterfall, with the vegetation and insect in the foreground.  If you notice the top edge of the grooves have a slight curvature, like the water at the top of a waterfall as it passes over the ledge.  The bottom has no such curves.  Also, I think this is wet-location vegetation such as may grow in the mist of a waterfall.

[CaptainKevo]

I have to admit that I see tall grass.