Why is saving for a sword a taboo ?

[Rayhan]

So i just want to tap into a few opinions on why saving for a sword is such a taboo subject. I see many people want  nihonto but rush head long into a purchase and inevitably lose money on a resale (I'm included in that group).

 

So why the reluctance to save and find a genre that suits? 

 

We are not short on information today, today we can see and experience everything possible!

 

Let me know 🙏

[Bugyotsuji]

Logically, you are correct.

But, why do men fall for beautiful women and vice versa?

衝動買い

Shodogai.... translates to 'impulsive purchase' in English.

[Scogg]

Desire is the cause of suffering 

 

In these circles (on NMB), I’d argue it’s taboo to rush into a purchase.

 

-Sam

[nulldevice]

16 minutes ago, Rayhan said:

So i just want to tap into a few opinions on why saving for a sword is such a taboo subject. I see many people want  nihonto but rush head long into a purchase and inevitably lose money on a resale (I'm included in that group).

 

So why the reluctance to save and find a genre that suits? 

 

We are not short on information today, today we can see and experience everything possible!

 

Let me know 🙏

Its easier to justify to the wife a few smaller purchases (say 2-3x $3000) than 1 bigger $10k+ purchase. 

I agree with your post wholeheartedly btw. I wonder what the "turnover" rate of collectors who buy a $2000 sword is? How many keep that one and only nihonto and are okay, how many end up selling it later as the novelty wears off, and how many go onto becoming more interested collectors and get stuck with us here! 

[jawob]

Spot on Chandler! 

[Alex A]

Instant gratification and dopamine, its an issue lol

[Mushin]

Because nihonto—like all art—stirs emotion. And emotion is the opposite of rationality. Even the most deliberate sword purchase usually carries a whiff of irrational exuberance. That’s part of the fun. But I think there’s a deeper reason why saving in this field is so difficult: the “bird in the hand” problem.

Unlike modern manufactured goods, nihonto are finite and unpredictable. A piece appears, and if you don’t act, it may be years—or forever—before you see something comparable. We have little visibility into what’s out there, let alone what’s coming next. Will you ever again see a Hosho Sadamune katana? A Horikawa school tanto at that price? Maybe. Maybe not.

So when a sword shows up at a show, on a dealer's site, or buried in an estate sale, and it’s priced within reach, people jump. They might ask themselves: Will something better come along? Will I ever find a zaimei example for this kind of money? How long should I realistically wait? These are unanswerable questions, and the uncertainty often pushes people to act.

The market data backs this up. Look at Jussi’s database—some smiths have shockingly few documented blades. So you see something close to your goal, maybe not a perfect match, and you go for it. Or maybe you're not even sure what you're chasing yet. Many newer collectors have ambitious goals that aren't grounded in market reality. A friend recently told me he’s hunting a signed Saeki Norishige katana. When I gently explained that none are known to exist, he simply said he’ll wait. I admire the optimism, but if something else irresistible shows up before he’s saved enough, is it really so taboo to shift gears?

Honestly, the only real taboo is buying something nobody else will ever want. That’s my personal rule: don’t buy anything you can’t imagine trading or selling later for roughly what you paid. Just today, Ray Singer cautioned me on a piece, saying, “If you buy this, it’s yours for life—no resale possible at this price.” That was all I needed to hear. I passed.

But buying something desirable—even if it’s not exactly what you want—can be smart. As your eye improves and your knowledge deepens, your taste will evolve. As long as you avoid junk, earlier purchases can become stepping stones—trade bait or equity—for the pieces you really want down the line.

Saving is noble, but acting when the right thing crosses your path isn’t a moral failure. It’s human—and sometimes strategic.

[Baka Gaijin]

There are two siblings, Greed and Stupidity, by themselves they are tolerable, but combined, they become the Twins of Evil.

 

I'll get my Coat.....

[Matsunoki]

Two other siblings

Ignorance and enthusiasm 

equally dangerous

[The Forest Ninja]

Saving for something is a good thing. Too many people live paycheck to paycheck.

[Gakusee]

45 minutes ago, Mushin said:

 

A friend recently told me he’s hunting a signed Saeki Norishige katana. When I gently explained that none are known to exist, he simply said he’ll wait.

Bobby, they exist….. Simply they are not available or accessible to 99.999999999% of the NMB. 

I would add that few have the willpower nowadays to resist temptations - we are human and fragile when it comes to emotions, desires and obsessions. Moreover, pursuing a rare and desirable blade can indeed take many years, will probably require extensive (predominantly Japan-based or Japan-connected) contacts and deep knowledge (nowadays it is easier but still these factors are present) as well as a very solid bank balance.
Separately, isn’t instant gratification pursuit omnipresent in society today? That is not only the case with Nihonto / our hobbies. Our dopamine-, serotonin- and nor/adrenalin-exhausted brains just cannot conceptualise waiting 5+ years for a blade. 

 

Personally, I always advise new members and contacts to wait, learn, save, look, investigate and discuss extensively before buying. Some listen and some do not. 

[Matsunoki]

Sometimes the most worthwhile lesson that we remember is one that cost us money.

Also, not everyone is looking for really fine things and is perfectly happy lower down the ladder.

The financial risk generally is lower at the lower tiers. A mistake can be modestly costly but higher up the ladder…..maybe a bit more nerve wracking?

….and we all have to start somewhere somehow

[Mushin]

1 hour ago, Gakusee said:

Bobby, they exist….. Simply they are not available or accessible to 99.999999999% of the NMB. 

Yes, Michael, I think I saw I three high-ranking tachi with Norishige mei, but all katana are as expected suriage to some extent, so no zaimei katana that I could find. But to your point, you are correct that these swords with signatures are not meant for mere mortals like most of us.  And yes, we spend so much time pursuing gratification that most of us would not know it if it fell out of a tree and bit us in the arse! 

[Gakusee]

27 minutes ago, Mushin said:

Yes, Michael, I think I saw I three high-ranking tachi with Norishige mei, but all katana are as expected suriage to some extent, so no zaimei katana that I could find. But to your point, you are correct that these swords with signatures are not meant for mere mortals like most of us.  And yes, we spend so much time pursuing gratification that most of us would not know it if it fell out of a tree and bit us in the arse! 

 

Haha, yes, it would be impossible to find a Norishige “katana”, you are right, as they would be “tachi” technically. 
 

But the discussion does not need to revolve around these ethereal blades, and not even relate to expensive blades. The logic is symmetrical at lower-valued blades. 

[Mushin]

4 minutes ago, Gakusee said:

The logic is symmetrical at lower-valued blades. 

Michael, you're exactly right—the psychology isn't reserved for rarefied Juyo pieces or grail-level smiths. In fact, I’d argue the pressure is often more intense at the $3,000 level and below. For newbies and budget-conscious buyers, that sum often represents months of saving, negotiation with a spouse or partner, and maybe - though seldomly - hours of research and online lurking. When a blade suddenly appears within reach, the emotional surge and the desire can be overwhelming—because for many it feels like a now-or-never moment. At that tier, there’s often less confidence, less experience, and more susceptibility to lust, FOMO, or the thrill of acquisition. You're not just buying a sword—you’re trying to buy validation, a piece of history, and even identity in the hobby. That kind of psychological charge can make restraint even harder than for a wealthy  experienced collector weighing whether to spend $30,000 on a Tokubetso Juyo blade (if one existed at $30k.)

So yes, the logic absolutely applies across the board. The real difference isn't price—it’s experience, patience, and emotional discipline, none of which are tied to budget. Like I said, even I sometimes need a friend to hold me back when enthusiasm and stupidity get the best of me. I am getting better but am still often a five-year-old kid in the proverbial candy store when it comes to swords and fittings.

[Rayhan]

Ok Ok we step away from Juyo and unicorns now gentlemen because I am talking in the 8K USD range. Why the reluctance to save for the first to be in that range. When I was a poor student in the UK in the early 2000's I would save everything for Gendaito, I didnt fly home (even if the family offered to cover it) all I wanted was Gendaito. Last year those Gendaito I purchased for 600 GBP or 900 GBP sold for 5K a piece in Bonhams, that is 5X in 20 years and in 2045 those Gendai blades are going to jump as they hit their 100 year mark. scrounging and saving pays off as long as you aim for the right elemets. But I am so confused why saving for is such an issue, it is all, I need this now? Why? Then when i was in the work place I was so impulsive, bought so much nonsensical stuff and had to spend years, YEARS, selling them to get back on track. Why not try atleast to start in a logical progression?

[jawob]

Rayhan, I think your logic is correct but most collectors defy logic and operate with emotion. I also think there is a trial and error period, which helps us understand what we like and don't like. Taste can change.

[Hoshi]

Hi, 

 

Saving thoughtfully for a sword isn't taboo; rather, the true taboo lies in the opposite practice—impulsively accumulating a hoard of stuff because one likes Nihonto. That same collector, ten years down the line, could have been the owner of few but immeasurably valuable masterpiece.  

 

I have the firm conviction that collecting skews highly towards rewarding delay of gratification, and I like to think of it as a form of rebellion against the tiktokification of our brains.  

 

Our communities shape our identities. In our current timeline, we ought to strongly prefer associating with people who desire and take active steps towards preserving a functional attention span, the capacity to delay gratification, the motivation to carry on diligent study and the savviness to build high-quality social bonds along the way. My desire to help and share knowledge in turn depends whether or not I sense this potential in a curious soul. At the end of the day, we become who we hang around with. So we either police our spaces and create strong cultural norms, abandon the space, or risk becoming something we don't want.  

 

Ted Tenold, a wiseman from Montana, once told me that this hobby is like "growing a bonzai garden" - and it stuck with me. Take it slow, prune the leaves carefully, let it grow over decades with intentionality. The meaningful pleasures of life are in the waiting, not in the act of consumption.

 

It is not uncommon for collectors to save for a year, followed by one or two more years between parting with their money and taking delivery. It adds up quickly, six months for a new habaki, one year for a great polish, one year between passing Juyo Shinsa and seeing it for the first time. Three years between the formation of an intention and seeing the results of this intention materialized. 

 

These timeframes sound insane to most people, especially when you have Amazon same day delivery and the customer entitlement that comes with it. But I think it carries benefits for character building. There is contentment to be found in doing things slowly, the right way, without cutting corners, as oppose to riding the dopamine-fueled pleasure treadmill to get the next hit.  

 

This all sounds good in theory, but this level of patience is hard fought for, especially not nowadays in our neurologically damaging environment, and even then, we all have moments when we're the proverbial five year old in the candy store. It is really hard. 

 

It takes a lot of time and intention. Perhaps, we are all bonzai gardens. 

 

Best,

 

Hoshi

[Mark S.]

If you save $2000, ‘someone’ will tell you, “you should have waited and saved $5000.”

 

If you save $5000, ‘someone’ will tell you, “you should have waited and saved $10,000.”

 

If you save $10,000, ‘someone’ will tell you, “you should have waited and saved $20,000.”

 

If you save $20,000, ‘someone’ will tell you, “you should have waited and saved $100,000.”

 

Collect the way you want to collect.  You do you.  While graciously accepting advice is noble, there will always be people who love to tell you what to do with your money, what you should or shouldn’t buy, and why you messed up buying what you bought.  That is always the easy part.  Studying and knowing what you like, being happy with your purchases, and collecting for yourself vs others is a little harder.  Is it more important that you are happy, or impressing others?  Who are we buying these blades for?

[Rayhan]

38 minutes ago, Mark S. said:

If you save $2000, ‘someone’ will tell you, “you should have waited and saved $5000.”

 

If you save $5000, ‘someone’ will tell you, “you should have waited and saved $10,000.”

 

If you save $10,000, ‘someone’ will tell you, “you should have waited and saved $20,000.”

 

If you save $20,000, ‘someone’ will tell you, “you should have waited and saved $100,000.”

 

Collect the way you want to collect.  You do you.  While graciously accepting advice is noble, there will always be people who love to tell you what to do with your money, what you should or shouldn’t buy, and why you messed up buying what you bought.  That is always the easy part.  Studying and knowing what you like, being happy with your purchases, and collecting for yourself vs others is a little harder.  Is it more important that you are happy, or impressing others?  Who are we buying these blades for?

Absolutely, but it's not the money. Its what we  see, the 2000 is crap, the 5000 is ok, then you see 10k, 15k,25k etc and you see, really see and then you're all alone on an island again 

[Alex A]

Edit, was heading off topic about collecting in the modern world, another topic.

[Robert S]

On the other hand, if it really is the aesthetics of the blade that captivate you, it may be a $1500 blade that is "just right", even if you could afford $50K.  It's not going to be "that name" with "that history"... but that's not always important.  It may be something else entirely that is the goal of the purchase.  My last blade was a sad little overpolished and belt sanded wakizashi for $150... and it's a wreck, but I'm learning lots from it, and will have fun making koshirae for it.

[Matsunoki]

Also remember that not everyone is a blade collector. Many are sword collectors ie the whole package together with untouched koshirae. 
Not everyone is an elitist blade hunter. If that is your “thing” - fine but don’t assume others even want to follow the same path.

The sword collector most likely has a whole different set of objectives and tolerances which could easily mean accepting an unimportant blade or one in  poor condition in return for some nice fittings.
It has already been said above I’m sure but judging what others enjoy collecting based on your own views is irrelevant

[Rivkin]

I have seen plenty of collections with dozens of 500-1000$ swords and nothing else. 

Reminds me of Ukrainian army - one General, six mistresses, and every single one bears two inch red lips with certain other physical features.

 

But there is a fun story, sort of the other side.

 

I am standing in line at DTI and there is an American collector right after me. We are talking about what are we are looking for and I say - maybe I'll find a nice koshirae. How much do you have on you, says the guy. 10,000$. The guy starts to shake and taps me on the shoulder "you should not be doing this... you should not be doing this... Nice koshirae is 100k USD. You should buy books, study, and then with 100k you can buy a nice piece".

Everytime he saw me walking between stands later same day he kept shaking his head in disapproval.

 

I am pretty confident when this dude dies, for a year somewhere in Kansas couple of friends at the local club will sigh "John was such a massive figure in our field". And then comes.. nothing. There is not going to be a groundbreaking collection for sale. Nobody will state "Before John we believed in two Rai Kunitoshi but he proved there was three".

[Lareon]

I started my collecting based entirely on collecting gunto, I wanted one of each type ,95, nco etc 
then it got more refined the more i learnt. 
Gendaito, Copper nco etc etc
Then i learnt more and moved closer to nihonto, collecting good smiths in gunto koshirae

now i collect nihonto, more specifically ko-gassan.

I went from £500 to £2000 then to £10,000 plus

Would i have spent the higher end at the start of my collection? no.

now i know what I do and don't know to a much higher degree and can be more confident in a purchase. Not just that; now I am closer to being able to appreciate what that price is getting me.
But the final thing really is, even at the start of my collection , i loved the swords i had then, swords others would dismiss now as junk, they still sit there and are cleaned, oiled and kept well looked after. each one is a piece of my journey to where i am now in my knowledge and also while it may sound a little silly, those swords were crafted with care and sweat and deserve to be preserved.




 

[nulldevice]

I always figure if the only meaningful collecting was sai-jo saku master smith's pieces, we'd only have books on that. But we don't. 

If it was just koto and shinto blades, we wouldn't have books on shinshinto. 

If it was just traditionally made blades, we wouldn't have militaria books on war-time swords and fittings but we do. 

There is enough depth in this field to really get deep into any one of many many sub-genres of Japanese swords. Masterwork collectors aren't better or more pure than gendaito collectors. Its all about one's preference and collecting goals. 

[Jussi Ekholm]

I think one important thing is to scale the time frame to financial means of the person. People will have varying opportunities and it would be of course important to make most out of them.

 

When someone gets into sword collecting I don't think we should expect that he/she will wait 5 years before purchasing a sword. I think that is just unreasonable time frame, if it is that difficult to get into the hobby most people will just find another hobby. For the first purchase I think few months would seem like reasonable wait time. Of course the level of purchase will totally depend on the amount a person will be able to commit. I know some people in this forum (and outside forum too) have actually started at extremely high level, and that is an amazing feat.

 

As a small time collector I have only 1 sword in my collection that I have actually wanted, I got it 3,5 years ago. The few others I have I have just purchased because they were very cheap and I liked them. Most likely when I approach my next purchase that I actually want in my focus I will sell something. For me saving up to items that I actually want will probably take somewhere around 5 to 10 years. It is just fun to spend 5 months of sword saving budget into a cheap item and then sell it bit later on for approximately same amount, that just keeps me being a collector. If I would only buy an item once every 10 years, honestly I think I would not care about the collecting side of this hobby at all.

[Rayhan]

So in these past few threads can we say that there is a reluctance to spend because in the beginning there is no confidence, education, uncertainty and when we get more confidenet we spend more? 

 

49 minutes ago, nulldevice said:

I always figure if the only meaningful collecting was sai-jo saku master smith's pieces, we'd only have books on that. But we don't. 

If it was just koto and shinto blades, we wouldn't have books on shinshinto. 

If it was just traditionally made blades, we wouldn't have militaria books on war-time swords and fittings but we do. 

There is enough depth in this field to really get deep into any one of many many sub-genres of Japanese swords. Masterwork collectors aren't better or more pure than gendaito collectors. Its all about one's preference and collecting goals. 

I have seen Gendaito blades that I would call Masterwork, Shinsakuto Masterworks, as so on. Example is a Okubo Kazuhira that I showed to Tanobe Sensei. He immediately stopped and looked at me quite blank, he said he does not do sayagaki on new swords....I was so scared I had offeneded him. He then said, but on this I will do. I have not seen any other Shinsakuto with his Sayagaki, he likened the blade to a copy of Sadamune and loved the sword for what it was, a modern Masterwork. Collectors are collectors the difference is not what I think it is more on the mitigating factors such as what one defines as quality, you get quality at 5000 dollars and at 5 million dollars, what is the defenition of quality? Is it about the availibility of comparible examples? 

 

44 minutes ago, Jussi Ekholm said:

I think one important thing is to scale the time frame to financial means of the person. People will have varying opportunities and it would be of course important to make most out of them.

 

When someone gets into sword collecting I don't think we should expect that he/she will wait 5 years before purchasing a sword. I think that is just unreasonable time frame, if it is that difficult to get into the hobby most people will just find another hobby. For the first purchase I think few months would seem like reasonable wait time. Of course the level of purchase will totally depend on the amount a person will be able to commit. I know some people in this forum (and outside forum too) have actually started at extremely high level, and that is an amazing feat.

 

As a small time collector I have only 1 sword in my collection that I have actually wanted, I got it 3,5 years ago. The few others I have I have just purchased because they were very cheap and I liked them. Most likely when I approach my next purchase that I actually want in my focus I will sell something. For me saving up to items that I actually want will probably take somewhere around 5 to 10 years. It is just fun to spend 5 months of sword saving budget into a cheap item and then sell it bit later on for approximately same amount, that just keeps me being a collector. If I would only buy an item once every 10 years, honestly I think I would not care about the collecting side of this hobby at all.

 

Jussi I do not understand this post from someone as patient as you  you have an analytical database that can all to the table any sword we have probably seen online and otherwise and yet the selective timeframe is long, if budget was no object then I would love to know what you would buy for your top 5? Riddle me that and I know you will say some amazing names and blades  

 

 

[Hokke]

Im not sure I agree with the title of this thread, as I am unaware of any standing social taboo amongst collectors with regard to saving money for a larger purchase. It seems the real question is whether anyone should bother buying lower quality nihonto, simply because it's less expensive. Still a flawed question philosophically IMO, but I will give my take.

Long before I came onto the nihonto scene, I was into timepieces, still am actually. I have far more invested in watches than I do nihonto and even custom blades by contemporary smiths, which can be quite pricey. I mention this because when I first became interested in watches, I started with a Fossil purchased on a field trip. Very quickly one became two and two became five, from different makers. In the budget arena, you name it, ive had them all, Seiko, Citizen, Bulova, Accutron, Belair, etc. All of them were unique in their own way, construction materials, colors, movements, but as I had the opportunity to study and wear each one, I learned my taste. From there I stepped into mechanical movements starting with miyota and so on, same process. So when it came time to step up into real money, I was already well versed. 

Bringing this back to nihonto, I am on a similar journey. I started in the sub 2k range and have moved up slowly since, learning a bit with each piece, honing my particular taste. I have even been fortunate enough to have those more knowledgable than I, make purchases for me at shows I was unable to attend, so I could get a glimpse into their value system. 

So, do I find value in less expensive items.....absolutely. Am I going to take a bath financially when it comes time to sell them.....absolutely, education is never free. 

[PNSSHOGUN]

Having hands on experience early on is quite valuable, until you see real quality in hand it's all theoretical. Once you know what something of good quality is, saving for it becomes far easier.