A question for Shinshinto collectors

[Natichu]

Good evening all, 

 

Having focused my reading primarily on koto works so far, I've recently started seeing a few shinshinto blades that have caught my eye. So for the shinshinto afficianados among us, I thought I'd ask what is it about shinshinto works that got you interested in them? And importantly, any resources you recommend for more in depth discussions of the period and the break from the shinto tokuden? 

 

Any insights or stories would be very much appreciated! 

[oli]

Hi,

 

i am not an expert, i am on the beginning, for me the fascinate part of Shinshinto, is the Fukkoto movement.  You have a big diversity of blades across from all styles and the Sugata isn't so uniform like in Shinto.  Price is also a factor, good healthy Koto blades are more expensive. 

My main resource is Shinshinto-shi from Markus Sesko. 

 

regards

Oli

[Bosco]

I’m newbie too. I don’t focus on which era but I’m trying to learn the foundation all the basics. I’m more on the condition of any blade, if it’s healthy, no dmg I buy to study. Easier than focusing on specific era.

[Rivkin]

The best shinshinto is typically imitation of Soshu - can be Naotane, Naokatsu, Kiyomaro.

I personally would consider Naokatsu to be most affordable of the three, with quality often superior to Naotane.

Kiyomaro's best works are shinshinto's very best, but he also made some rather coarse stuff where the goal was basically make it as koto as possible and there are a few simply failing to reach the top grade.

[Alex A]

The information available for later smiths.

[Toryu2020]

The connections to real people, real places and real events...

[Shugyosha]

You can own a sword that is pretty much the size and shape the smith intended rather than what is left after age and use. Obviously age and the patina of use have their charm too, but I think there are fewer trade-offs with younger blades. 

[Tcat]

A big pro of shinshinto IMHO is you can get healthy, nice polish nearly flawless blades in old shapes for a low price. It's where I think a lot of newcomers on a budget should start out. The con is usually not so impressive activities in the steel and 'lack of historical relevance', the latter you can get around by focusing on smiths of note or those making weapons intended for use, eg Aizu smiths during the Boshin war. Some of the most beautiful swords and fittings ever made were produced during this period.

[ChrisW]

With Shinshinto, you do need to be a bit selective as there were a lot of not so artistic smiths just making blades to get by. However, you can run across beauties like this:

 

 

Obviously, the smiths who had the time and wherewithal to imitate, study, and expand upon their Koto masters were the best: Kiyomitsu, Sadakazu, Kanesada to name a few. I'd argue that the relative recentness of these works makes it more relevant to study them while the items and the history is still easier to preserve. Given time, all things wither and disappear under the sands.

[Tohagi]

Hello,

I like Shinshinto for bizen or Soden-bizen utsushi in perfect condition and often absolutely beautiful horimono, in my opinion horimono were the best at shinshinto...

 

Best,

Eric 

[Alex A]

On a side note and maybe others have noticed.

 

Anyone remember a time when Shinshinto swords used to be a lot cheaper than they are now?, its like no one was interested.

 

Prices gone up a lot over recent years, especially for the likes of Yokoyama smiths.

[steve0]

Shinshinto are more geared towards the art then battle use IMHO, so some schools and smiths really flexed their talents in making very beautiful blades. That said, I like Shinto a little more as they were more often made to cut men down.

[Natichu]

3 hours ago, steve0 said:

Shinshinto are more geared towards the art then battle use IMHO, so some schools and smiths really flexed their talents in making very beautiful blades. That said, I like Shinto a little more as they were more often made to cut men down.

Interesting, I had the rather opposite impression, with my thought being koto as king in terms of designed for use (along with keicho shinto), then shinshinto, and then shinto itself.  Clearly more reading to do for me! 

[george trotter]

Don't forget the RJT and private-made gendaito of the Showa era 1926-1945. These are the last in the 1000 year history of traditionally made nihonto to be made specifically for use on the battlefield. 

That's why I collect them...they are the most relevant to my parents generation and to my own.

Regards...

[Rawa]

I wont agree that shinsaku aren't battle ready. Probably more durable then koto and shinto together.

[steve0]

9 hours ago, Natichu said:

Interesting, I had the rather opposite impression, with my thought being koto as king in terms of designed for use (along with keicho shinto), then shinshinto, and then shinto itself.  Clearly more reading to do for me! 

Koto are but my pockets are not that deep

[Tohagi]

An interesting point in Masahide revival of sword tradition was that shinto sword were not trustable anymore in fight. He broke à lot of them to make this point clear ... and that was the starting point of shinshinto era.

[sabiji]

You would be doing an injustice to the poor Shinto blades in general.

Masahide, Suketaka, Tsunahide, Masashige initially simply followed the trend of demand in the Osaka Shinto style of Tsuda Sukehiro or Terukane.

 

Blades with wide Yakiba and Nie-Deki high-temperature hardening are simply more brittle.

 

Swordsmiths already knew this back then, they weren't stupid either. Take, for example, such Ara-Nie monsters from Mizuta Kunishige or Tameie. They made up for it with material. A mizuta that is not strong and broad across the average is not a good mizuta ;-). Incidentally, mizuta blades were extremely popular with the Ako-Ronin.

 

Or take a look at Satsuma. Masayuki and Motohira were contemporaries of Masahide. Did they follow Masahide's nioi-deki depression? Satsuma, of all people, with her jigen-ryu, which is based on powerful blows? The result is powerful blades with pronounced hamaguri-niku.

 

It's a tactic to promote a product by badmouthing others. That is marketing.

In the end, Kiyomaro proved with similar tests and a good portion of bad boy image that (his) Nie-Deki Soshu-Utsushi can withstand more than some Nioi-Deki blades from Masahide students.

[oli]

Don't understand why some people comparing different time epoch and argue which is the best. Personally i think in every time epoch, there are made wonderful blades.