Arsenal Mark question... NEW PICTURES ADDED 11-2-09.

[oneshot onekill]

I grabbed this picture from another website because it has the same Arsenal Mark as a sword I'm about to receive. I wasn't able to use the picture from the actual sword I'm getting. I couldn't get it to copy. The Mei on my blade is completely different and mine is a Katana. Anyway, can anyone tell me anything about this arsenal mark? Thanks in advance!

 

I'll post actual pics of my blade when I receive it...

[John A Stuart]

That is a sakura stamp with kanji showing the factory where the sword was manufactured. John

With kanji for 'sho' 昭

[oneshot onekill]

OK... Ya lost me. Pretty much from the very beginning. I forgot to mention I'm a total Newbie so I need things pretty much "spelled-out" for me because I'm still an idiot when it comes to terminology. I'm mostly curious about the small stamp on the left side of the picture. As the picture is NOT my blade I'll address the rest when I get the blade in my hands and can take pictures of my own. I "guessed" it was an arsenal mark because I've seen other different yet similar stamps on other blades. Thanks again and sorry for sounding so stupid!

 

John

[John A Stuart]

It is commonly called a Showa arsenal stamp indicating a sword made for the Japanese military. I am not sure if it is stamped at the forge or later at the arsenal as an acceptance mark, but, think at the forge where it was made. John

[Rich S]

Simply that is the Showa tang stamp. See my military swords page linked

below.

 

http://home.earthlink.net/~steinrl/military.htm

 

Rich S

[oneshot onekill]

OK, as I read about swords with a Showa it looks like they are not the greatest blades out there. Curious, because the blade I'm getting has what appears to be an active Hamon and a tight Hada. It has a very pronounced Yokote and an O-Kissaki. I'm buying it because it appears to have most of the ear-marks of what I'd consider a decent blade. Granted , not an extremely "old" blade but a nice one. The Tsuba is very plain and the Tsuka appears to be WWII but with nice looking two-tone Menuki. I can't make out what they are though. The Saya is black lacquered wood. As soon as I get it I'll post pictures so you all can help me identify it... hopefully! Thanks again!

 

John

[oneshot onekill]

I grabbed this picture from another website because it has the same Arsenal Mark as a sword I'm about to receive. I wasn't able to use the picture from the actual sword I'm getting. I couldn't get it to copy. The Mei on my blade is completely different and mine is a Katana. Anyway, can anyone tell me anything about this arsenal mark? Thanks in advance!

 

I'll post actual pics of my blade when I receive it...

Interesting that the website I got this picture from called the Showa an "arsenal Mark" that indicated where the blade was "distributed" from. Also the blade is described as a Wakizashi that was made in the 1800's! Just goes to show there are a TON of different views about different features... I'm more confused now than ever! Here's the link: http://www.quanonline.com/military/mili ... ord_17.php

[nagamaki - Franco]

Hello.

 

Do yourself a favor and add Military Swords of Japan 1868-1945 by Richard Fuller and Ron Gregory to your library. It really is a must reference for anyone starting out.

[oneshot onekill]

Hello.

 

Do yourself a favor and add Military Swords of Japan 1868-1945 by Richard Fuller and Ron Gregory to your library. It really is a must reference for anyone starting out.

 

I appreciate the "lead". I certainly will. Thank you!

 

John

[Dave0258]

Grey Doffin and RobertM just offered copies of the Fuller and Gregory book on ebay. Another book to add to your library is Swords of Imperial Japan 1868-1945 Cyclopedia Edition by Jim Dawson.

Dave

[Stephen]

John

 

Check your PM

[oneshot onekill]

OK... Here's a picture of the signature on my Sword. Any help identifying what it says would be much appreciated. I'm not very good at figuring that out yet.

[Bruno]

I will try do translate it.

[Grey Doffin]

 

Mino no Kuni no Ju Kanenao

with the Showa stamp.

Grey

[oneshot onekill]

Mino no Kuni no Ju Kanenao

with the Showa stamp.

Grey

OK... Clue me in... I'm a little on the "dense" side!

[Bruno]

Grey,

 

for the quick translation!

 

I tried but I guess I really need a method of mei translation....

[oneshot onekill]

Yes... Really fast! Thank you Very Much! Now... What does it all mean. Is this a "known" swordsmith? Did he make decent Blades? I know being Showa-to makes it "Hit-or-miss" as far as the quality.

[Grey Doffin]

Hi John,

Mino no Kuni no Ju means resident of the Province of Mino; Kanenao is the name of the smith.

Bruno,

A method of mei translation: Kanji Flashcards, from me (I sell sets).

Grey

[SwordGuyJoe]

I have seen a few Kanenao blades and almost bought one. Very good looking, feels strong in hand, but you won't find nearly anything on him (I have looked). Every time I see one, I think I should buy it, but the lack of documentation makes me hesitate. Could we see some photos of the blade itself?

[oneshot onekill]

Of course... As soon as I get the time and figure out what's wrong with my camera. It's suddenly taking fuzzy pictures. Like the auto-focus isn't working.

[oneshot onekill]

OK... Here are more pictures... Finally!

I'm supposedly the only one to have this sword besides the 91 year old Gentleman who relieved it from a Japanese Officer in 1945 in China. It's a bit unusual for a Military blade because of the Mounts. There appears to have been some sort of emblem on the Saya that was removed. Also, there is Kanji and the number "7" painted on the Saya in white. Please look over the pics and let me know what you see. As always... Thanks in advance!

 

Cheers,

John

[oneshot onekill]

More Pics...

[oneshot onekill]

As I research Military Swords more I'm beginning to wonder where exactly my sword fits. Although the blade has a Showa stamped on the Nakago the only other part of the sword that indicates to me "Military Style" is the Kashira... and the story from the former owner. I still don't know what the missing emblem on the Saya was so maybe that gives some clue. I don't know if some Officers were allowed to carry more "Traditional style" swords? Or if there would have been one of those Leather covers on it that held the ring. There's probably a very simple explanation that one of you "Experts" can explain but I'm slightly confused. Hopefully someone "in-the-know" will look at the pictures and shed some light on it.

 

Thanks,

John

 

PS: I'll be acquiring books and doing my own leg-work in the near future! Just can't afford them yet.

[loiner1965]

As I research Military Swords more I'm beginning to wonder where exactly my sword fits. Although the blade has a Showa stamped on the Nakago the only other part of the sword that indicates to me "Military Style" is the Kashira... and the story from the former owner. I still don't know what the missing emblem on the Saya was so maybe that gives some clue. I don't know if some Officers were allowed to carry more "Traditional style" swords? Or if there would have been one of those Leather covers on it that held the ring. There's probably a very simple explanation that one of you "Experts" can explain but I'm slightly confused. Hopefully someone "in-the-know" will look at the pictures and shed some light on it.

 

Thanks,

John

 

PS: I'll be acquiring books and doing my own leg-work in the near future! Just can't afford them yet.

nice blade....it could also be a mismatch koshirae too

[oneshot onekill]

As I research Military Swords more I'm beginning to wonder where exactly my sword fits. Although the blade has a Showa stamped on the Nakago the only other part of the sword that indicates to me "Military Style" is the Kashira... and the story from the former owner. I still don't know what the missing emblem on the Saya was so maybe that gives some clue. I don't know if some Officers were allowed to carry more "Traditional style" swords? Or if there would have been one of those Leather covers on it that held the ring. There's probably a very simple explanation that one of you "Experts" can explain but I'm slightly confused. Hopefully someone "in-the-know" will look at the pictures and shed some light on it.

 

Thanks,

John

 

PS: I'll be acquiring books and doing my own leg-work in the near future! Just can't afford them yet.

nice blade....it could also be a mismatch koshirae too

I thought about that but I really don't think so. The fit is perfect and the former owner knows nothing about swords except that his father got it in China at the end of WWII. It was surrendered by a Japanese Officer. I'm wondering if the missing emblem from the Saya is a Unit Designation or something else that the Officer would have wanted to remove before turning it in.

[george trotter]

Hi John,

I can understand your confusion...sword mounts civilian, blade gunto...as you get further into your studies you will find that in fact, it is pretty common...and correct. It was mounted in modern "civilian" mounts when it was sold...the paper label is, if I remember correctly, is a trade label from one of the officer sword shops (it is illustrated in one or more of the Fuller & Gregory books).

Your sword was originally fitted with a leather scabbard cover (notice the press-stud strap is still there). So, your sword was one of many made in Seki, mounted by one of the many officer outfitter shops and yes...an officer could carry just about any style of fitting he wanted. This sword was probably bought "off the shelf" by its former owner and surrendered in 1945.

Regards,

George Trotter.

[george trotter]

PS...your scabbard seems to say "roko kyu ku" ie 56 ku (not 7). Japanese swords and fittings production numbering often used their katakana phonetic script with numbers eg A E U E O, Ka Ki Ku Ke Ko, Sa Shi Su Se So etc... much as we use letters and numbers eg A 1-99, B 1-99, etc This usage indicates large numbers on production as in lots of officers ordering swords so needing to keep track of merchandise...and customer's orders.

 

I have even seen such numbering eg "Ta 106" on a good quality gendaito made by a Registered Army Swordsmith, this indicates a fairly high production rate and a need to account to the army for tamahagane issued to the smith.

 

Hope this helps

George Trotter

[george trotter]

GAWD...I'm getting old...I meant to type roku kyu ie. 69...I am a dolt...sorry.

[loiner1965]

its true what george says as i just found out recently...they was no standard at all for military gunto swords....a soldier could carry any style he wanted but he could not use any sword knot that he had to stick to what he was issued

[oneshot onekill]

That's Great information! Thanks!

 

An earlier response stated the sword was made in Mino. Are Seki and Mino the same place? Or is one possibly a... for lack of a better term... "suburb" of the other? I'm trying to learn as much as I can about the WWII blades because there seems to be TONS of information out there!