What happened to confiscated swords?

[Misconstrued]

During WW2, swords were taken, many were brought home, but many were destroyed. How were these swords destroyed and why were they destroyed? It's saddening to know so many swords were confiscated and destroyed.

[paulb]

I seem to remember images and reports stating that many, many thousands of swords were dumped in the Pacific. Basically an attempt to de-weaponise the population (and probably humiliate a bit as well) and at a time when recycling anything was never considered.

[Misconstrued]

That's insane! I wonder if recovery is even an option. I mean it's a very broad place to dump swords. Even if recovery was an option, none of them would be in good condition.. I'd be surprised if you even got a piece of metal recovered.

[Bruce Pennington]

The Dawson and Fuller books, as well as other sword history books, say that approximately 500,000 swords were confiscated.  About half were destroyed, either dumped in the ocean or cut up and melted.  The swords in the photo of this post - Interesting Photo - were being cut up and melted.  Many of the other half were granted to ranking officers and their staff (there's a photo in one of them, of a secretary receiving a sword). 

 

Recovery of dumped swords would be fruitless.  The waters where they dumped weren't that deep, therefore the rust would be total. 

[Bruce Pennington]

As to the 'why', I have often asked the same question about the destruction of U.S. military planes after the war.  The answer I got was that materials, like steel, were in short supply.  Citizens, during the war, were constantly being encouraged to donate metal items, pots and pans etc, to build weapons.  When the war was over, the shortage still existed.  Vast numbers of aircraft were cut up and melted down for the steel, copper, etc.  I imagine the same was true for post war Japan. 

 

Additionally, in 1946, an order came out prohibiting the troops from bringing home any more war trophies.  And in Japan, a law was passed prohibiting war weapons.

[Misconstrued]

What happened was awful. I feel like taking away the swords made a bit of sense, but destroying them? Feels wildly excessive. I mean you took their family heirlooms, and just to go and put icing on the cake, destroy them.. thankfully someone from the U.S. government told them to stop, the damage was already very significant though.. glad it stopped before it got worse.

[Bruce Pennington]

There is a long line of post WWII documents posted by Stephen Thorpe - WW2 US Govt Archived Documents - that discusses the progression of Occupation Forces on sword confiscation, and the cessation of it.  Discussions about National Treasure blades taken by soldiers and local police and the efforts to get them back.  Very worth reading.

[Brian]

Yesterday I saw a short video of the US troops with HUGE piles of German rifles and mainly fine German shotguns, in the streets. They were putting the barrels in street grates and bending them, and also smashing the shotguns and rifles against buildings to destroy them. Hundreds of civilian arms, you could see some were fine doubles.
After a war, the occupiers just want to get rid of all weapons as fast and possible. It happens. They don't care about collectibility or value.

[Bugyotsuji]

Often swords and other old weapons were buried (in shrines etc.) and after the war dug up again. In most cases however, the damage caused beneath the ground was extensive, even after a few short years.

 

We had a thread on this same subject some years back, no?

[SteveM]

This was just a few years ago. 1400 swords found buried in the grounds of an elementary school outside of Tōkyō in 2018. 

https://mainichi.jp/english/graphs/20180807/hpe/00m/0na/001000g/7

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2018/08/06/national/1400-guns-1200-swords-world-war-ii-found-buried-tokyo-elementary-school/

[Misconstrued]

Someone should really take a metal detector to Japan! Obviously abiding by the rules and laws, but imagine all the stuff you'd find!

[george trotter]

2 hours ago, paulb said:

I seem to remember images and reports stating that many, many thousands of swords were dumped in the Pacific. Basically an attempt to de-weaponise the population (and probably humiliate a bit as well) and at a time when recycling anything was never considered.

Yes, an old friend of mine, dead now, told me of his service in the Australian Army in PNG-Bougainville Is. He was a machine-gunner on a landing craft there and when the surrender happened, he said a large pile of Japanese swords was put on his craft and they were ordered to take them out beyond the lagoon reef into deep water and toss them in. This they did....he did keep one for himself though...a nice civilian buke-zukuri mounted samurai sword in lacquered scabbard.

Having been working in these areas myself in the 70s, I can tell you that the humid climate is NOT kind on war relics...I would say anything that has been damp/wet for 70 odd years is "gone".

Regards.

[Misconstrued]

Do you happen to have photos of the buke-zukuri? It sounds like a beautiful blade! But it's sad because as you said, for 70 years nothing will be there.

[Bugyotsuji]

Many years ago I took a metal detector to Japan, with very disappointing results.

[Paz]

If you get any of the reccomended sword books, you'll find a ton of info in there on what and how it happend. 

Literally every book I have on Japanese swords start with this scenario in history 

[kissakai]

Fascinating link from Bruce

The Honjo Masume is shown on Page 85 and some images from Page 100 onwards

Some very big names shown and the requests for museums and collectors to return some swords if they had them

 

[george trotter]

21 hours ago, Misconstrued said:

Do you happen to have photos of the buke-zukuri? It sounds like a beautiful blade! But it's sad because as you said, for 70 years nothing will be there.

No Jace, sorry. My friend (Max Binns) died 20 years ago and his "odds & ends" (including several nihonto and many antique firearms etc) were all sold off to dealers by his widow. I think many went overseas.

Regards,