Nanbokucho??….help please!

[Matsunoki]

Hello from the UK. I am returning to Nihonto after a gap of very many years. Please excuse all errors and omissions. I have acquired this blade and I would greatly appreciate some help figuring out what it is. For what it is worth, I think it could be a greatly cut down Nanbokucho Tachi but I lack the knowledge (or courage) to try beyond that. It is in the remains of an old Japanese polish so it has been very difficult to get good images. The hada looks to be a fairly coarse flowing masame with some ayasugi like inclusions in the hamon and a few o-hada areas. The hamon appears to be suguha and still looks fairly healthy with a bright thin nioi line mostly visible.The boshi looks kaen/hakkikake on one side and possibly Jizo on the other? There is konie scattered along the hamon, some in sunagashi or ayasugi form. I believe there is nothing left of the original nakago or if there is it has been heavily reworked. The kissaki is pretty large!

The measurements -

Nagasa.  63cm (overall 77cm)

motohaba 32.24mm

sakihaba 24.62 mm

motokasane 6.85 mm

sakikasane 6.24mm

kissaki length 87.81mm

 
I will post more images below. I’m very new to forums/ social media so I haven’t quite got the hang of it yet…..and as I’m rather “old school” my tech abilities are somewhat lacking……sorry! Sincere thanks in advance. Colin.

 

 

 

 

[Matsunoki]

[ChrisW]

Can we get a view of the other side of the nakago? But I think your assessment looks accurate. Looks like a Nambokucho tachi to me.

[Matsunoki]

Thanks Chris, greatly appreciate your time. Image attached…a bit dark! Any idea re school? 

[ChrisW]

I will leave a definitive judgement to those more experienced than myself! But on a cursory glance, maybe Yamato (specifically Hosho?) due to the suguha hamon and masame hada but the o-kissaki is typically a Bizen characteristic..  A bit of a puzzler, at least to my inexperienced eyes.

[SteveM]

Hmmm, the heart quickens a bit and one's mind races to Kaneuji, or to someone trying to affect a Kaneuji blade. 

Or, Bitchu Aoe? 

[WulinRuilong]

Could it be Yamatoshizu?

[Matsunoki]

Few more images…..apologies for poor quality.

[Toryu2020]

I certainly like the Shizu call - Hosho never made this shape. Can we see a close-up of the hamon in the habaki-moto as it enters the nakago?

[Jussi Ekholm]

I am also liking the Yamato Shizu route tha Yanchen said above.

 

Here is one example, even though the size is bit different on this one: https://www.aoijapan.net/katana-mumei-attributed-as-yamato-shizu/

 

I know there are several Yamato Shizu attributions that have wide mihaba like yours and large kissaki. I can try to dig up some tomorrow.

[Shugyosha]

My feeling is Nambokucho Yamato, but there’s some strange looking hada in the masame mix. It might be the photographs, but there’s something that reminds me of those shinshinto blades with the mixture of steels and sometimes other metals to emphasise the hada. 
 

Hope I’m wrong and that this turns out to be a cracking koto blade but I’ll wait to be shouted down. If koto, I don’t think it would paper to Hosho as there’s some mokume in the mix but which other Yamato school it might be is beyond me. 

[Matsunoki]

Thank you all so much. Imaging the hamon at the machi is difficult but I’ve given it a go! Hamon seems to disappear off down the nakago. Don’t think it’s shinshinto….there are many forging openings…images attached.

[Matsunoki]

More images

[Shugyosha]

You’re right scratch that comment. 

[Rivkin]

Could be real. Hamon seems to be suguha. Can be Yamato Shizu, can be lesser northern name like Kashu Fujishima (small gunome expected) or Uda...

With such sugata shinshinto is always a risk, but the work does have this feeling. However there were some people like Kaifu Ujiyoshi who being Yamato trained (Naminohira lineage) did very convincing suguha-Yamato-Soshu in Momoyama times with Nambokucho sugata.

 

P.S. I own Hosho (Hozon) with o-kissaki Nambokucho. They are just even more rare than their tanto.

[Matsunoki]

Again, thank you all for your replies. I know it is very difficult when we only have images and the sword is not in great polish. However when handling the blade it really does not feel shinshinto or even muromachi. I do appreciate that this sugata rightly raises suspicions. I believe none of the original nakago is present but already the blade is noticeably thinner than the nakago so it would seem to have had a few polishes even since the nakago was (totally?)reworked. There are also several suguha forging openings in various locations (but not in the hamon)….mostly tolerable…but I have imaged the worst earlier in the thread. The hada and steel colour  (in my opinion) looks koto although I know that is not reliably definitive!

Here in the uk we are severely limited in our abilities/options to get a sword polished and through Shinsa, in fact we are pretty much starved of swords! I do envy you lucky collectors in the USA, Australia etc. That’s why I am so grateful for having access to the expertise on this forum. 
Any/all further comments eagerly awaited.

Stay we’ll all of you.

Colin

[NewB]

Well.. im def puzzled...

 

J.

 

🤷‍♂️

[Utopianarian]

Yamato Hosho school. The openings in the grain which you mentioned throughout the blade. They are  are known for generally masame hada. Ware is acceptable to a certain point (masa-ware) and an important kantei point. But even Hosho was in many cases not 100% masame hada. I know there are many other factors to take into account.

[Utopianarian]

Blade has similar traits to Hosho

 

[Utopianarian]

Actually the more I study the pics I am with you guys on Yamato Shizu train with the rest of you. As mentioned above the shape gives that away and the Shinogi-ji isn’t high enough on this blade as most existing examples.

[Jussi Ekholm]

Unfortunately Yahoo JP has restricted Europe but I can still use it with proxy bidders. There is a Yamato Shizu attributed wakizashi that would be in maybe bit similarish condition to yours (and size is similarish too).

 

https://www.jauce.com/auction/p1046697288

 

[Utopianarian]

Nanbokucho Sugata

[FZ1]

> Unfortunately Yahoo JP has restricted Europe

 

The alternative to proxy bidding sites is to use a VPN (e.g. Nord, etc) to get directly to Yahoo Japan 

[WulinRuilong]

47 minutes ago, FZ1 said:

The alternative to proxy bidding sites is to use a VPN (e.g. Nord, etc) to get directly to Yahoo Japan

If it possible to buy nihonto by using proxy sites?

[Jacques]

Looking at the machi one would say that it was suriage yesterday...

[Utopianarian]

The Ana do look drilled instead of punched. Hard to tell about the one at the bottom 

[FZ1]

2 hours ago, WulinRuilong said:

If it possible to buy nihonto by using proxy sites?

They usually won't let you bid on swords because of the export process.  If you want to buy from Yahoo Japan, the best bet is to use an agent such as Kelly Schmidt.

 

Cheers,

 

Jon

[Matsunoki]

11 hours ago, Jacques D. said:

Looking at the machi one would say that it was suriage yesterday...

Jacques…..Please excuse me but I do not understand. I agree the machi look crisp but surely that suggests machi-okuri rather than “suriage yesterday”? The habaki does not fit quite as snugly as it should so maybe it was reused rather than a new one made?
 I  have a feeling that this blade emerged from a WW2 koshirae. I acquired it and several other swords from a confirmed “blade man” and it was bought by him at a USA show over 30 years ago. The old samurai saya fits but is quite a bit longer than the blade and has had the kurigata removed (and later replaced with a home made one). The heavy iron saya mounts are heavily rusted…..once had a leather cover? The tsuka has nothing to do with the blade and is matched. Lots of clues but nothing definite!. The seller strongly believed it was a very old blade….Nanbokucho was his  call.

George….I will have a very close look at the ana later today but can you please give me any clues re what to look for?. I lack knowledge regarding the tell-tale signs. I guess if it was refitted for WW2 it would have at least one drilled?

 

Thank you all again especially those who have gone to the trouble of researching and posting comparison images. 

Colin

[Utopianarian]

The Ana appear from the pictures like the edges of the Ana are sharp and have edges and burrs and are reflective on the edges and are not smooth and worn down with patina covering the outside edges of Ana. Check the inside hole of the Ana which should show well established patina as well. From my understanding punched holes were done from each side of the nakago and would meet in the middle. The exact method that was done I don’t think anybody is 100% sure and was lost to the ages. Probably something similar to the smithing process using red hot tooling approach from each side into the softer material. Definitely as you mentioned earlier the original nakago was cut away long ago and blade repurposed from tachi to katana. Probably refitted many times throughout time. I’ve seen old blades from Muromachi with drilled holes from WW2 refitted with Gunto fittings and Ana drilled holes look recently drilled and fresh even though it was 80 years ago. Sometimes with one or two original punched Ana which show the stark contrast. Here is an example of a Muromachi blade I used to have that was fitted in original ww2 Gunto that fit snug and perfect to the blade. I believe it was drilled during ww2. See attached pic of drilled Ana next to punched Ana. 

[Utopianarian]

Another pic