Mei or Gimei - Minatagawa Blade Help!

[Bruce Pennington]

Guys,

 

I've already put a bid on this, when I heard that it's likely gimei. What do you say? I have 6 days, but would like to find out as soon as possible.

 

thanks for the help!

 

]

[Austus]

Bruce, it looks like dremel tool tracks in the kissaki... I'm sure you noticed them.  The rust patterns  look fishy and/or cleaned around the mei. That spidery rust is shocking. But it's an interesting hamon.  I'd pass. Especially if the price isn't low.

[Bruce Pennington]

Here's a really poor picture off a websearch (don't know the source book) and the mei seems quite similar:

 

Another similar:

 

 

Slightly different:

 

[Stephen]

I think your bid is good Bruce.

[16k]

Bruce,

 

The condition of the blade is so so, but the Hamon is beautiful and I don’t see anything wrong with the signature personally. I know that if I had the money, I’d certainly bid.

[Brian]

The seller being who it is, I would not be hesitant. Sometimes knowing who the seller is makes the difference. In this case, you have a guarantee and some provenance and fallback.
Buying from sellers who turn out to be be known and longtime members here does help.

[Yuradneprov]

The comparison between shoshin and gimei shows that this is a gimei piece. From what I can see the minotagawa mon is extremely sloppy. The stokes are different

[Yuradneprov]

The black background is legit the two seperate pics are the piece in question.

[Bazza]

Bruce, it looks like dremel tool tracks in the kissaki... I'm sure you noticed them.  The rust patterns  look fishy and/or cleaned around the mei. That spidery rust is shocking. But it's an interesting hamon.  I'd pass. Especially if the price isn't low.

I think the marks in the kissaki that look like dremel tool tracks are in fact that odd-looking sort of concentric rust pattern that is like jorin mokume...  This adds to an impression that the sword has been stored for many years under less than ideal conditions.

 

https://markussesko.com/2015/05/13/kantei-2-jigane-jihada-2/ (do a Ctrl F on jorin)

 

http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/27115-tsuba-patina/  (Post #27)

 

BaZZa.

[Brian]

People need to be wary of making absolute claims without proof. And they also need to consider this is a wartime sword, not some aged Koto.
I personally don't see much discrepancy and since we don't know how these were produced or signed or who signed them at the time, I would not make any absolute claim without a shinsa.
The seller is a member here and I am not happy with comments that will influence the price. But that said...Fred did post it in a comment section. So just go easy guys. This could be a very nice item and does come with a guarantee.

Anyways, a proper comparison shows than not even the 'confirmed' one is perfect or fluent.

[Bruce Pennington]

Thanks guys for the input! And Brian, thanks for the info that the seller is a trusted member here. I don't doubt his integrity. Fleabay policy won't let me cancel my bid, so I'm not getting out of it. I seriously doubt, though, that I will win the bid as my offer is well under market value for a kai, much less a Minotogawa blade.

 

As to the gunto - I'm overall fairly comfortable with the mei. I've seen enough variations in WWII stuff to not expect perfection. The are no terribly obvious flaws, just variation, to my eye (ok, very inexperienced eye!). And I've seen enough variation in kikusui mon - they were hand-cut, not stamped.

 

I don't know enough about the Minotogawa operation. Were all smiths required to personally sign their blades? Or did they have (what's the word?) guy doing mei for them? Did they teach apprentices? And did those apprentices sign?

 

If I win the bid, I'll have a better look in-hand. My collection is full of not-perfect pieces. I truly love the immaculate ones some of you guys have, but my collection tends to run on a more commoner-gunto path. The biggest bother, to me, is the weird seppa. But I've bought gold-painted gunto, so I've seen worse!

[sbf]

Let me first say I make no claim to be an expert on anything. I have however been looking at gendai swords for a while now. Bought my first one, a Kasama Shigetsugu in 1983. Information on gendaito was pretty hard to come by in those days. I do not and have never owned a Minatogawa sword.
One thing I was taught, was that the blade’s the thing. Always look at the quality of the steel first. Then the other qualities, with the signature coming last. In the discussions regarding the sword at hand all I have seen are comments about the mon, the signature and the seppa. It’s as if we’re discussing a signature that has a blade attached to it. What about the blade? What about the steel? How do these qualities compare to other Minatogawa swords?
 

Steve

[Mark]

Bruce

 

don't worry i out bid you, just to relive your worry.  doubt i will win but will be REEEEEEEL happy if i do

[Ganko]

Here's a really poor picture off a websearch (don't know the source book) and the mei seems quite similar:

ff4fde6fcba4ba048a68766d5276262b.jpg

 

Another similar:

 

20170811_162153 1000.jpg

 

Slightly different:

 

masataka.jpg

 

The book the image is from is Herman Wallinga's "Gendaito Made at the Minaotgawa Shrine" 

[Bruce Pennington]

Mark,

I'm sure you'll enjoy it if you do win! I was simply trying to get it under market value to resell, adding the profit to my hobby fund for future buys. I'm new at it and not really good at this side of the hobby.