Showato or Gendaito?

[djcollection]

While browsing the samuraishokai website, I noticed this katana with hamon diferent from the rest (looks kind of like oil quenched, correct me if I'm wrong) and it was made during Showa period. https://www.samuraishokai.jp/sword/19163.html

Do you think it's a Showato or Genaito? If it was Showato and not made in the traditional way, will it still get a "Torokusho" 登録証 and be allowed for sale on the website as nihonto?


"Only traditionally made Nihonto can be licensed, i.e. swords made in Japan from Tamahagane 玉鋼 (and Shinto swords that are inscribed "Motte Namban-Tesu 以南蠻鐵" ["made using steel from the southern barbarians"]). This means in effect that it has to be either an antique, or made by a contemporary, licensed smith. Mass produced WWII swords (so called Showato昭和刀) and foreign made swords are not eligible for Torokusho."
http://www.jssus.org/nkp/japanese_sword_laws.html

[16k]

Might be wrong, but I’m leaning towards Gendaito.

[vajo]

Gendaito

[djcollection]

Gendaito

“The term "gendai or gendaito" on the other hand is used by collectors to refer to traditionally made blades; those which have folded steel and are water tempered. The Japanese require that for a sword to be "gendaito" it must be made of tamehagane or oroshigane even though it is impossible to tell what a sword is made from after the sword is finished and polished. Swords made of forge folded commercial mill steel look the same as those made of tamehagane after they are polished although some collectors feel that swords made of tamehagane are more likely to have active hamon and more prominent hada than those made of folded mill steel.”

 

Quoted from http://www.japaneseswordindex.com/showato.htm

 

 

For a gendaito, can I speculate that this blade was water quenched and made of folded mill steel due to less active hamon and less prominent hada?

[David Flynn]

Polishing swords in the early Showa period, posed many problems.  No1 the amount of qualified polishers.  No2.  being able to train enough people for the demand. Taking this into consideration, we find that many swords, were virtually  "Cleaned Up".  I had a Gendaito that was sold to me because, it had Muji hada.  With a little TLC this sword turned out to have Masame Hada.   The point I'm trying to make is that, many swords have their features covered by low level polishing.

[PNSSHOGUN]

David hit it on the head, some of the wartime polishes are so bad it makes you wonder if the sword is even authentic.

[djcollection]

Polishing swords in the early Showa period, posed many problems.  No1 the amount of qualified polishers.  No2.  being able to train enough people for the demand. Taking this into consideration, we find that many swords, were virtually  "Cleaned Up".  I had a Gendaito that was sold to me because, it had Muji hada.  With a little TLC this sword turned out to have Masame Hada.   The point I'm trying to make is that, many swords have their features covered by low level polishing.

Makes sense.

 

Do you think this blade is of low level polishing or standard polishing? Compare to most nihontos I've seen online, there's not alot hataraki in the hamon. Is it due to lack of proper polishing or other reasons? 

[David Flynn]

Sorry, I can't really tell from the photos.

[djcollection]

Polishing swords in the early Showa period, posed many problems.  No1 the amount of qualified polishers.  No2.  being able to train enough people for the demand. Taking this into consideration, we find that many swords, were virtually  "Cleaned Up".  I had a Gendaito that was sold to me because, it had Muji hada.  With a little TLC this sword turned out to have Masame Hada.   The point I'm trying to make is that, many swords have their features covered by low level polishing.

What’s TLC by the way? Is it a kind of metal polish that can be used on Gendaito? Don’t think we have it in NZ

[Bazza]

By the look of the nakago sabi I would opine Shinsakutou, possibly even VERY recently made...

 

BaZZa.

[lambo35]

What is TLC? = Tender Loving Care. 

 

Chuck

[hxv]

TLC = tender loving care.

 

Hoanh

[tbonesullivan]

I've got a mid 17th Century Shinto Blade in a Gunto setting, probably put back into service for the war and cleanedup. It has a polish from the Showa that doesn't bring out the hamon or other blade characteristics at all. You can barely see it in the right light.  Makes me wonder if it would be worth it to send it out for a real polish.

[djcollection]

I've got a mid 17th Century Shinto Blade in a Gunto setting, probably put back into service for the war and cleanedup. It has a polish from the Showa that doesn't bring out the hamon or other blade characteristics at all. You can barely see it in the right light.  Makes me wonder if it would be worth it to send it out for a real polish.

If it’s a Shinto blade, I reckon you should get it a proper polish. I was just reading a book on modern Japanese swords, and it mentioned about women polisher during the war period. A Shinto deserves better.

[16k]

If it’s a Shinto blade, I reckon you should get it a proper polish. I was just reading a book on modern Japanese swords, and it mentioned about women polisher during the war period. A Shinto deserves better.

No necessarily.

 

If the blade is in great shape, worthy of being at least Hozon, by a well known smith, not suriage, then, yes, maybe. Otherwise, you may end up spending more than the purchase value. Age doesn’t necessarily dictates quality.

[djcollection]

No necessarily.

If the blade is in great shape, worthy of being at least Hozon, by a well known smith, not suriage, then, yes, maybe. Otherwise, you may end up spending more than the purchase value. Age doesn’t necessarily dictates quality.

Thanks for point it out JP, you are right; it all depends.

[Bruce Pennington]

"Worth polishing" is something that depends on you. If you're planning to sell, then, yes the cost may put your expenses higher than market value.

 

If you're keeping it, then the decision is really based on your taste. Some folks love the aged look while others want to bring out the full beauty of the blade.

 

Just depends.