Hagire NTHK-NPO?

[EastCoast]

All,

 

Can a blade be papered under the NTHK-NPO with a hagire?

 

Best,

James

[Grey Doffin]

I saw it happen once at a shinsa in the US years ago.  The shinsa team saw the crack but still granted the paper.

Grey

[EastCoast]

Grey,

 

Thanks. Going to submit a blade to see what happens. I'll update the board with the results.

 

Best,

James

[Death-Ace]

Here's hoping, James! Just out of curiosity, what blade are you submitting?

 

You already know the NTHK is used to verify signatures/blades and is meant to technically preserve art swords, even those that are considered to have lost some of their artistic content.

 

Normally the fatally flawed blades you see pass are either extremely ancient and rare (important Heian to Kamakura blades, those by very important/famous smiths, and/or with documented history to a famous event.) Those ancient pieces tend to have nioi giri, hagire, some nasty fukure, etc. but pass, with some making Juyo due to their importance rather than being a fully intact "art sword" although the blade could just be beautiful, old, and important enough, something could be overlooked.

 

Other reasons are some other blades due pass due to a flaw being unseen, gimei misdocumented. These guys are human like us so they do get exhausted mentally and physically by the end of shinsa. One may just feel compassionate and may let one slip by. Or sometimes, someone could be bribed.

 

In any case, if yours is a super goody, hope something good comes out of it!

[Stephen]

I got a high pass as the crack lined up with a strike mark on the mune.
When it came to getting the papers it had changed to pink. Saying it was a great study of the bizen Katsumitsu school. Guess they didnt want to set a president.

 

 

[Death-Ace]

Stephen,

 

That seems to be another one I figure is why they sometimes give a pass. Those battle damaged high quality nihonto. Beautiful blade, however!

 

I feel as you're right. Do enough and everyone will expect it...just like my Marines (loved them no matter, haha)! It seems a given for ancient blades and those of the highest importance, but then everyone with a worn out Muromachi katana/wakizashi would then wonder why their blades didn't pass. Unless I bought one cheap or was given it, I don't think I could own another one with hagire. I had a gendaito by a lesser known smith that even with rust marks in areas, had the most gorgeous flamboyant hamon and nice itame hada. I didn't know until after I made the trade and it was too late that there were two hagire an inch apart in the center of the ha.

 

Just like old P38s and 1911s with a cracked slide, there's just something about a weapon that is fatally damaged that just gives me shivers, no matter how beautiful. Might change my mind if the right one did make it to me!

[Stephen]

My regrets for being put off of the papers and sold it. Id love to still own it. Foolishness.

[paulb]

Sorry I dont want to introduce  a negative and what I am saying is based on what I have seen with the NBTHK rather than NTHK. 

It is true they do and have papered blades which might be considered to have fatal flaws, such as complete loss of boshi, saiha (not seen any but dont doubt hagiri as well) However in all these cases they have been blades of historical importance. For example the only known ubu signed daito by awataguchi Yoshimitsu or a very rare Ichimonji example. If it is by anything less where better and faultless examples exist I am guesiing they wouldnt paper.

Therefore whether it will get through or not is as much dependent on who made it as the fault it has.

[EastCoast]

All,

 

The blade is currently at auction. So to clarify, if I win I will submit it. I'll post pictures and details in a couple of days.

 

In regards to preferences of blades with higire. I respect both schools of thought. My view is, since I am not purchasing it for use (combat), then it should be viewed and treated as art. In other words form over function. In the world of art you will find many damaged masterpieces. It may detract from the value, but not necessarily the aesthetic appeal. One cannot discount the history either.

 

Just my .02 cents.

 

Thank you for all your thoughts. This has been a very informative thread.

 

Best,

James

[b.hennick]

Study for 10 years and you will ask yourself "Why did I ever buy this?" Study hard and you will ask the question years earlier. 

[EastCoast]

B.

 

I'd like to explore your comment further. Is your comment predicated on study as the only value?

 

Best,

James

[Jacques]

 such as complete loss of boshi, 

 

 

It's the case for Yasutsuna Dojigiri.

[Surfson]

I had an early blade pass with a hagire that I never noticed.  I sold it on ebay and the guy who bought it noticed it.  Before I could fix the problem and take a return, he gave me negative feedback.  I still took the blade back but he never was able to remove the negative feedback.  Anyway, I then sold it to a kid at the show in Chicago for 100 bucks if he promised never to sell it as healthy!  

[EastCoast]

All,

 

The auction went higher than I thought it would. This was the blade in question. Any thoughts:

 

http://www.sword-auction.jp/en/content/as19239%E8%84%87%E5%B7%AE%EF%BC%9A%E5%89%87%E5%85%89%E5%88%83%E5%88%87%E3%82%8C%E3%81%8C%E3%81%82%E3%82%8B-wakizashi-norimitsu%E3%80%80hagire-monouchi-area

[Bazza]

Any thoughts???  Oi loiks it!!!  A sword of its time...

 

BaZZa.

 

EDIT:  And one doesn't always have to have a paper...

[EastCoast]

Bazza,

 

While I do not regret letting this one slip, I must say it was a gorgeous blade. It appears to have had a fresh polish, so my guess is that the owner was going to paper until the flaw became visable.

 

Best,

James