Anyone Seen This Kind Sword!

[Bjj]

Thanks so hope someone can help me on here?First off I’m restoring my Edo Period wazikashi currently.this brings me to my little question.so my wife years ago said her father was given a sword by a sultan in the Philippines.Now to today she finally asked her mom if she still had it i was pushing her to ask about it.Her mom still has it and took some pictures of it.now I was thinking it would be a ww2 samurai sword but now I have pictures I really can’t tell how old it is or it’s origin.the sheath if it went with sword originally looks military .Any one have a clue to what the sword is ?Thanks

It looks samurai style two handed and the blade .could it be Meji period ?

[Bjj]

Here it is?

[uwe]

Not a Japanese sword “Bjj” (please sign your post’s)! Perhaps a Dha, or something like that....?!

[Bjj]

What does sign your posts mean?

On the other not my wakizashi I know it’s frowned on by some but I tried restoring the Tsuba .It was a dark rusted brown and what I thought was iron after oven clean cycle ,viniger and tons scrubbing it looks to be a different metal ?I bought it separate as Edo Period but know not sure ?

[Bazza]

Dear bjj,

And your real name is???  We like to address you properly so please look into this.

 

The sword you pictured looks to me like a bayonet re-purposed to a general purpose tool, perhaps for cane cutting.  the point has been modified as well.  I remember decades ago Ron Hartman (G'day mate) saying he had found Japanese blades re-mounted as cane cutting implements in the Philippines after WW2.

 

The "restoration" method you chose for your tsuba is not only "frowned on by some" its frowned upon by EVERYONE.  You have almost certainly ruined your tsuba beyond economic repair.

 

"bjj" my candid advice to you is that if you are seriously interested in Japanese swords, your mission, if you choose to accept it, is to do nothing else in the coming weeks beyond devoting all your spare time to studying this Nihonto Message Board.  Choose a topic or area of interest from the Forum front page and use the "Search" feature to read up an any particular aspect.

 

You could begin by showing pictures of the wakizashi you are endeavoring to restore and absorb the responses from collectors who have had many, many decades of experience in restoring Japanese swords.  This is NOT a trivial, do-it-yourself exercise.

 

The road ahead is hard and long...  Welcome...

 

BaZZa

aka Barry Thomas.

[Ray Singer]

Using the oven cleaning cycle is a new home restoration tactic I have not heard before. Please do not attempt this again if you acquire another tsuba (or Japanese sword). Any such restoration work is best handled by a professional.

[Jean]

Done for Christian

[ROKUJURO]

This thread should perhaps be moved to a forum where it fits. 

[Bjj]

Here is tha wazikashi.the saya I’m pretty sure is not Edo .the blade is as I sent detailed photos to a expert who wrote book on subject .when I got it years back it had a ww2 handle and Tsuba that I sold.I bought all the other parts separately to try to restore to period correct.I saw a guy restore a Tsuba and looked amazing that’s why I gave it a try on the one I bought.If was brown and rusty and I would not want to put that on the sword that I’m having the tsuka re wrapped.

[Bjj]

Actually you can see in the one photo how the Tsuba looked before I tried cleaning it .It is risk I took I do think restoring is worth it just guessing I did not do correct.I thought it was iron and that is how you restore iron pans .

[Ray Singer]

Cleaning tsuba can be handled much less invasively, using ivory, antler or bone. Best though to send it to Ford Hallam to evaluate first and potentially handle the restoration work.

[Bjj]

Cleaning tsuba can be handled much less invasively, using ivory, antler or bone. Best though to send it to Ford Hallam to evaluate first and potentially handle the restoration work.

I saw the estoration the guy you mentioned did it was amazing.Jm on fence on the Tsuba I think it’s savable and nothing wrong with restoring something back to original Condition.I know with guitars we don’t refinish paint jobs it destroys value.I know with cars restoration is not frowned on.My sword is not a museum quality show piece .if the Tsuba is savable I’ll use it or I’ll have buy another .the blade I never messed with .the tsuka will be done by professional.I chose to wrap in black as in the Edo Period that was the color considered legal and the dye was more abundant from my reading.If the Tsuba is a real Edo Period one then to me it still is weather restored or not?

[Brian]

Age doesn't equal value or desirability.
These blades in ww2 koshirae are best left alone, as that is part of their history. Trying to put them into old and antique fittings is usually a novice thing...more advanced collectors will use shirasaya or leave as is usually. Anyways, what is done is done. Don't think of it as an Edo period piece whether ruined or not..the age is irrelevant.
You are not sure of the material yet? Simple..is it magnetic?

[Bjj]

Age doesn't equal value or desirability.

These blades in ww2 koshirae are best left alone, as that is part of their history. Trying to put them into old and antique fittings is usually a novice thing...more advanced collectors will use shirasaya or leave as is usually. Anyways, what is done is done. Don't think of it as an Edo period piece whether ruined or not..the age is irrelevant.

You are not sure of the material yet? Simple..is it magnetic?

sorry I disagree the blade was from Edo Period .Im just going to put period correct parts and re wrap the tsuka .You can’t take away the fact it was made by a master sword maker in the 1600 .I understand your opinion on how I got it leaving it .but returning closer back to what it was to me has value and history.people buy swords today that cost thousands new I’d rather own a piece that was built in the time samurai lived.it is not a fake or a piece of metal to me .if a collector had a blade,Tsuba and tsuka and piece to gether as a sword it is not a fake .It would be nice to have a samurai sword that was all original one piece but who’s to say it was because no one was alive then unless actually documented?

[DaveT]

why is this post in the katchu section?

[Jean]

Hi Dave, I moved it in Nihonto section, I did not even noticed that it was posted in the katchu section, thanks for notifying...

[Blazeaglory]

sorry I disagree the blade was from Edo Period .Im just going to put period correct parts and re wrap the tsuka .You can’t take away the fact it was made by a master sword maker in the 1600 .I understand your opinion on how I got it leaving it .but returning closer back to what it was to me has value and history.people buy swords today that cost thousands new I’d rather own a piece that was built in the time samurai lived.it is not a fake or a piece of metal to me .if a collector had a blade,Tsuba and tsuka and piece to gether as a sword it is not a fake .It would be nice to have a samurai sword that was all original one piece but who’s to say it was because no one was alive then unless actually documented?

 

 

Hello, from one rookie (myself), to another. I know this place can seem off putting at times but I think what Brian is saying is to not worry about age or era, just see the sword as Nihonto and look deeper than the labels to try and understand the beauty and sacred things these blades represent. Look passed everything you know and forget everything. He really is giving you good advice, as well as others.

 

Trust me, they're trying to help you so please take everything they say to heart and actually try to find the wisdom in their posts. Several members have multiple decades worth of experience and direct knowledge of Nihonto and dealing with physical blades, sometimes 1000 years old. They have seen and handled THOUSANDS of different swords. Please try not to take anything said too personally and open your mind to everyone's opinions and suggestions.

 

There are steps and very serious methods to deal with Nihonto. You will find out that this area requires allot of sacrifice and hard moments. You must humble yourself to the process if you truly wish to be a caretaker of Nihonto. I understand your analogies with guitars and cars (I myself am a collector of old auto) but the Japanese views and traditions with these blades is nothing like we have ever been taught in the West. Its a very rigid and serious/respectful "hobby" and requires a certain type of person to understand and be willing to devote what is necessary. For instance, we bow to the blade prior to approaching and drawing... but actual Kantei (sword appraisal) is a long hard road with many bumps and turns but with great rewards at the end

 

 

 

Start here (link below) and return here many many times. Ive been studying Nihonto for roughly a year and for the last few months in seriousness and I still constantly go back to this forum and Mark Sesko page. Trust me.

 

https://markussesko.com/kantei/

[Bjj]

Wow thanks for that link Awsome!I

[Blazeaglory]

Wow thanks for that link Awsome!I

 You're welcome! That link will come in very useful if you continue to stick with Nihonto!

[Brian]

As Dwain said, the tsuba doesn't have intrinsic value because of its age..it would have value because of what it is. Condition, rarity, craftsmanship. Value doesn't come from age in Japanese swords. Plenty of junk 1500's swords and plenty of fantastic swords made in the 1900's. And Edo period is considered new anyways in Nihonto terms.
Forget the age and look at what the item is. This isn't archaeology...it is the study of an art form.
A broken junk sword from the 1400's doesn't get revered because it is old. It has to satisfy the conditions of art and function.
All I'm saying is get past the age part. The item has to hold its own based in its own merits.

[Bjj]

Guess I don’t understand but thanks for trying .for me the age and craftsmanship kind go together.I do see your point on if it’s cracked junk that makes sense .In much more familiar on guitars as J own couple expensive jazz guitars.I know quit a bit about cars too.just me but if I could I’d like to own katana and wakizashi from Muromachi_period or older.For me it’s how they crafted the weapons and the fact actual samurai wore or even used it.the Edo Period is still Awsome to me Becuase a samurai could of had it on his person and that is just Awsome.I understand that at that time odds they were never used.Im honestly not interested in modern 1800 up swords .The guitars I own are of the era my idols would have played .like I said I respect everyone’s views.the link given to me just blew my mind .The actual knowledge required to be a expert seems to take a life time to acquire and many a many hands on experience.I will leave that to tradition .I see swords vary In Value but in my case me personally value the fact who owned these older swords before me that is as close as I can get to the time .Just so you know little bit about me .I started martial arts when I was a child .I had my own dojo with every ninja weapon you can imagine lol.My nick name was ninja up until high school.I have a samurai tattoo on my back with Japanese letters respect.My favorite book is true life tales of a yakuza .I have a blue belt I. Brazilian jiu jitsu.so I’m huge fan of the Japanese culture including art work and architecture.So If I could have a collection of Japanese’s art I would unfortunately cars ,watches,guitars and houses suck most my cash .so maybe not to some but to me my sword really means a lot to me and ai have wanted piece it back together for years and I’m finally doing it.I know it’s different subject then my origanal post on the wondering what the blade my mother in law has which was answered and thanks .well thanks for letting me be apart of this community and I’ll do my best to respect everyone opinion .

[Blazeaglory]

Guess I don’t understand but thanks for trying .for me the age and craftsmanship kind go together.I do see your point on if it’s cracked junk that makes sense .In much more familiar on guitars as J own couple expensive jazz guitars.I know quit a bit about cars too.just me but if I could I’d like to own katana and wakizashi from Muromachi_period or older.For me it’s how they crafted the weapons and the fact actual samurai wore or even used it.the Edo Period is still Awsome to me Becuase a samurai could of had it on his person and that is just Awsome.I understand that at that time odds they were never used.Im honestly not interested in modern 1800 up swords .The guitars I own are of the era my idols would have played .like I said I respect everyone’s views.the link given to me just blew my mind .The actual knowledge required to be a expert seems to take a life time to acquire and many a many hands on experience.I will leave that to tradition .I see swords vary In Value but in my case me personally value the fact who owned these older swords before me that is as close as I can get to the time .Just so you know little bit about me .I started martial arts when I was a child .I had my own dojo with every ninja weapon you can imagine lol.My nick name was ninja up until high school.I have a samurai tattoo on my back with Japanese letters respect.My favorite book is true life tales of a yakuza .I have a blue belt I. Brazilian jiu jitsu.so I’m huge fan of the Japanese culture including art work and architecture.So If I could have a collection of Japanese’s art I would unfortunately cars ,watches,guitars and houses suck most my cash .so maybe not to some but to me my sword really means a lot to me and ai have wanted piece it back together for years and I’m finally doing it.I know it’s different subject then my origanal post on the wondering what the blade my mother in law has which was answered and thanks .well thanks for letting me be apart of this community and I’ll do my best to respect everyone opinion .

I'm the same way so to speak but as time goes by it can become a problem because searching by era, for me anyways, kinda pigeon holed me and I was limiting myself to brief areas of time. Also a person can tend to buy up just those era of nihonto regardless of quality, only because it's "Muromachi" or "Koto" and get stuck holding allot of "garbage" blades so to speak. Loving certain era's is fine and you're right that older blades are made better, well prior to late Muromachi anyways but even that statement is kinda bad because there were bad blades during all era's and there are also great blades in all era's... That's why it's best to learn to see the sword without any labels.

 

That is why, in my opinion, and what I got frm Brian's post is, once you find the love of the blade based on Sugata and other features, you'll find that era kinda takes a back seat to your love of Nihonto. The sword finds you maybe haha

 

Also commas are your friend! Lol it's hard to read a wall of text! Now I know how everyone here felt when I first started posting lol

[Bjj]

Thanks bro and I’m sorry I have very bad writing skills I have always had issues with grahmer and words and spelling.I sometimes catch it And mostly don’t .Some dyslexia and laziness.

[Blazeaglory]

Thanks bro and I’m sorry I have very bad writing skills I have always had issues with grahmer and words and spelling.I sometimes catch it And mostly don’t .Some dyslexia and laziness.

No worries. I had some trials as well and continue to everyday. Just take it slow and refer to that Markus Sesko Kantei link for info. Read and research and if you can't seem to figure out a specific issue, just ask someone here or shoot me a PM. I'm no expert on Nihonto but I can point you to the basics and refer to great reading material. Higher info or expert Kantei I do not claim to know, so I could only suggest basic info and refer you to others here but general Nihonto talk is fine.

 

But take it from me, don't take anything personally here and you'll be fine.???????? There's many different personality types from many different nations.

 

So good luck and hope to see you in the near future with better results!