Star Stamped Tsutsui Kiyokane Blade

[cisco-san]

Hello,

has somebody already seen a star stamped blade made by Tsutsui Kiyokane?
I of course know that he was a RJT, but all blades I saw, had no star stamp.

All comments are highly appreciated.

Many thanks
Klaus

 

 

[Bruce Pennington]

Klaus,

 

As I understand the history of the star stamp, it didn't really get into widespread use until after 1942 (trial runs began in 1940, so some dated between '40 and '42 are around). So, it's possible your smith was making swords before and after the star stamp was established.

 

BTW, is there no date on the other side? If not, it simply means the blade was made "off-site" at a non-arsenal forge.

[cisco-san]

Hi,

 

yes there is a date. The blade was made Feb. 1944

Sorry for confusion, but I meant that I have never seen a star stamped blade from Tsutsui Kiyokane before I bought this one. So it seem rare?!

[vajo]

Hi Klaus,

 

congratulation to the sword. A very authentic mei from this high grade gendaito smith. 

 

Is it with Koshirare? Can we take a look on the blade?

[reeder]

The blade clearly has a star stamp. No date => no star stamp. Logic would dictate that this blade would have a star stamp.

 

Hard to really make a call if it’s “rare” based on limited sample sizes. I don’t think it significantly increases the value, just the marketability of it if you were to sell it.

[Stephen]

Anyone else think the star is not quite kosher?.. Bit off to me.

[DanielGJ]

according to the documentation, it should not be stamped because it forged a gendaito, greetings Daniel.

[Stephen]

D

Star stamps are considered Gendaito.

 

S

[reeder]

Daniel, blades only received star stamps if they met strict requirements, including being traditionally made.

 

Stephen, just looks like a mis-stamp and all looks fine to me.

 

How does the rest of the blade look?

[DanielGJ]

Not all blades by Jumei Tosho swordsmiths were star stamped. If the blade was a private or direct purchase or not for military use, there will be no stamp appearing on the nakago. Many of the above listed smiths made gendaito which do not bear a star stamp. Smiths who were Jumei Tosho also produced non-traditionally made (non gendaito) blades. Each blade must be just individually, on its own merits. https://www.japaneseswordindex.com/gendai2.htm

[george trotter]

Stephen/Brandon/all,

I agree, the star is fine, maybe just lightly struck. Yes, to receive a star stamp the blade had to be gendaito...made with tamahagane and pine charcoal and quenched in water. The Mei had to be put on by the maker and they had to be dated.

Sure, some blades were made by some RJT smiths for private order (these often have no date), but I would be unsure whether these were made with government supplied tamahagane and charcoal...that might be forbidden as the government was very particular about accounting carefully for the materials it supplied, so they may be made before the smith became RJT or else with.privately supplied tamahagane and charcoal? Not sure.

Just on this private sword matter, I do have two blades made by RJT smiths which are not RJT star stamped...one is by Osaka RJT smith Okishiba Heianjo Yoshisada...this is not dated, just a wartime slogan "JIN CHU HO KOKU" (Loyalty, Patriotism) and has no star. Also, second, is another by one of the Yamagami brothers, Munetoshi. This one is his standard work, is dated 9/1941 and numbered 308 to his contract number series but does not have a star, so must be a private sword.

He and his brother Akihisa were making gendaito privately until they were appointed RJT in 1942 and the first star stamped blade by Munetoshi I have seen is dated 11/1942 and is contract number 422...from this date/number onwards I have seen no private made swords by him, so I presume he did not have time/material to do private work after he became RJT, but maybe an undated/un-starred blade might turn up?.

 

Anyway, after my ramble I would finish by saying that the same conditions probably apply to Tsutsui Kiyokane. He probably made private swords, dated and undated, but whether this was during his RJT period only seeing examples will tell.

 

Hope this helps,

[cisco-san]

Hello George,

 

many thanks for explanation. I really appreciate it!

 

Attached a few pic from the blade

 

 

 

[vajo]

Nice sword Klaus! 

[cisco-san]

Nice sword Klaus! 

thx

[george trotter]

Hi Klaus,

yes, nice sword. I do like the RJT sword.

Regards

[Stephen]

good to see the sword now! Ichiban!

[Bruce Pennington]

. This one is his standard work, is dated 9/1941 and numbered 308 to his contract number series but does not have a star, so must be a private sword.

He and his brother Akihisa were making gendaito privately until they were appointed RJT in 1942 and the first star stamped blade by Munetoshi I have seen is dated 11/1942 and is contract number 422...from this date/number onwards I have seen no private made swords by him, so I presume he did not have time/material to do private work after he became RJT, but maybe an undated/un-starred blade might turn up?.

Hope this helps,

George, regarding "contract numbers" - does this mean each number was tied to a custom contract with an individual, or does it refer to the smith's contract with the army; and/or are the numbers representative of how many blades he's made for the army under contract?

[Windy]

Stephen/Brandon/all,

I agree, the star is fine, maybe just lightly struck. Yes, to receive a star stamp the blade had to be gendaito...made with tamahagane and pine charcoal and quenched in water. The Mei had to be put on by the maker and they had to be dated.

Sure, some blades were made by some RJT smiths for private order (these often have no date), but I would be unsure whether these were made with government supplied tamahagane and charcoal...that might be forbidden as the government was very particular about accounting carefully for the materials it supplied, so they may be made before the smith became RJT or else with.privately supplied tamahagane and charcoal? Not sure.

Just on this private sword matter, I do have two blades made by RJT smiths which are not RJT star stamped...one is by Osaka RJT smith Okishiba Heianjo Yoshisada...this is not dated, just a wartime slogan "JIN CHU HO KOKU" (Loyalty, Patriotism) and has no star. Also, second, is another by one of the Yamagami brothers, Munetoshi. This one is his standard work, is dated 9/1941 and numbered 308 to his contract number series but does not have a star, so must be a private sword.

He and his brother Akihisa were making gendaito privately until they were appointed RJT in 1942 and the first star stamped blade by Munetoshi I have seen is dated 11/1942 and is contract number 422...from this date/number onwards I have seen no private made swords by him, so I presume he did not have time/material to do private work after he became RJT, but maybe an undated/un-starred blade might turn up?.

 

Anyway, after my ramble I would finish by saying that the same conditions probably apply to Tsutsui Kiyokane. He probably made private swords, dated and undated, but whether this was during his RJT period only seeing examples will tell.

 

Hope this helps,

I have a Dec ‘41 blade in Type 3 mounts by Akihisa. No star stamp, or any other stamps. Is a fine sword.

[vajo]

My Type3 Akihisa is from dec '42 with Star Stamp

[george trotter]

Hi Bruce,

As for the contract numbers. I cannot be positive, but they seem to be

(1) private numbers, perhaps just done sequentially as orders came in.to the brothers 

(2) Then the brothers used a matsu kanji in a circle stamped next to the number and this system continued in with the star stamp appearing part way through.

(3) Lastly, the numbers seem to be very high and have a katakana  character in front of them and this system seems to be the same as seen on other RJT smith tangs, so I think it is a contract number series imposed by the RJT authorities.

 

Dates / number sequences I have seen are as follows:

(1) Both brothers sharing their own "in-house" date/number sequence: Sho 16/7 no. 106 (no star) to 16/9 no. 308 (no star) 

(2) Both brothers sharing their own "in-house" date/matsu/numbers sequence: 17/4 matsu 11 (no star) to date unknown matsu 61 (no star)

     then both brothers sharing their own "in-house" date/matsu/number/star:  17/11 (no matsu) 422 (star) and 17/11 matsu 433 (star) to 18/10 matsu 1377 (star)

(3) Then the date/katakana/number/star sequence (which I presume to be RJT) begins: 19/3 "ta"2353 (star)...I have only seen this on Yamagami Munetoshi so far. I do not know the date/katakana/number this sequence begins at, but it must be after 18/10 matsu 1377. 

 

Hope this is not too confusing?

Regards,

[Bruce Pennington]

Hi Bruce,

As for the contract numbers. I cannot be positive, but they seem to be

(1) private numbers, perhaps just done sequentially as orders came in.to the brothers 

(2) Then the brothers used a matsu kanji in a circle stamped next to the number and this system continued in with the star stamp appearing part way through.

(3) Lastly, the numbers seem to be very high and have a katakana  character in front of them and this system seems to be the same as seen on other RJT smith tangs, so I think it is a contract number series imposed by the RJT authorities.

 

Dates / number sequences I have seen are as follows:

(1) Both brothers sharing their own "in-house" date/number sequence: Sho 16/7 no. 106 (no star) to 16/9 no. 308 (no star) 

(2) Both brothers sharing their own "in-house" date/matsu/numbers sequence: 17/4 matsu 11 (no star) to date unknown matsu 61 (no star)

     then both brothers sharing their own "in-house" date/matsu/number/star:  17/11 (no matsu) 422 (star) and 17/11 matsu 433 (star) to 18/10 matsu 1377 (star)

(3) Then the date/katakana/number/star sequence (which I presume to be RJT) begins: 19/3 "ta"2353 (star)...I have only seen this on Yamagami Munetoshi so far. I do not know the date/katakana/number this sequence begins at, but it must be after 18/10 matsu 1377. 

 

Hope this is not too confusing?

Regards,

 

Thanks George!  With observed ranges like that (103 - 2353) it does seem to be more likely that it was tracking their overall work for the IJA.  Individual special orders wouldn't have such a range, I wouldn't think.  Thanks for sharing with us!

[Ron Barker]

I have one. From my Facebook page: 
 

One of my most prized possessions, a katana that my father was given during his service after WWII. I was able to find someone to translate the etchings on the tang:


"The full signature reads Sanshu Ju Tsutsui Kiyokane Saku. Sanshu is another name for the Province of Mikawa and indicates where the smith was from. His name was Tsutsui Kiyokane. The full signature means Made by Tsutsui Kiyokane of Sanshu Province. Now that I can read the full date, it says that it was made in February of 1944.

This smith's real name was Tsutsui Seiichi and he was born in 1907. Kiyokane's was a student of Kurihara Akihide, and he served as a Rikugun Jumei Tosho during WWll (Army Certified Swordsmith ). This is shown by the fact that there is a star symbol stamped into the tang. He made high grade modern swords.

This is an army blade and not a stainless steel blade as I suspected. The tang is very clean so I thought it may have been stainless but it is not."

[Ganko]

Tsutsui Kiyokane was the first swordsmith to receive a license to make swords after the war. I had a blade by him that actually had two star stamps on it. It was of excellent quality in late steel scabbard double button mounts.

[george trotter]

Hi Tom,

interesting that your Kiyokane sword has 2 buttons and a steel scabbard (Type 3/Rinji type)....until now only ones like that seen are by star stamped Seki smiths, so yours shows this 2 button steel scabbard style was more wide-spread. Any pics?

Regards,

[Bruce Pennington]

George,

My star-stamped Kunitoshi is also in a metal saya with double release buttons.

[Ganko]

Hi Tom,

interesting that your Kiyokane sword has 2 buttons and a steel scabbard (Type 3/Rinji type)....until now only ones like that seen are by star stamped Seki smiths, so yours shows this 2 button steel scabbard style was more wide-spread. Any pics?

Regards,

Here are some pics of the Kiyokane. One of the star stamps is a different size. There is a stamp on each side of the nakago.

The koshirae is the 4th one down from the top in the pic.

[Bruno]

Nice score Klaus! Any infos as to who polished it?

[dwmc]

George,

My star-stamped Kunitoshi is also in a metal saya with double release buttons.

 

Nice type 3/Rinji Bruce...But for Heavens sake, what previous owner put that huge flat head screw in for a mekugi peg tearing up a otherwise fairly decent war time ito wrap.

Please take no offense, I'm sure it wasn't you...

 

Dave M.

[Bruce Pennington]

Nice type 3/Rinji Bruce...But for Heavens sake, what previous owner put that huge flat head screw in for a mekugi peg tearing up a otherwise fairly decent war time ito wrap.

Please take no offense, I'm sure it wasn't you...

 

Dave M.

Dave,

Actually, the "type 3" or Contingency model (Rinji-seishiki), was designed with the lower ana being filled with a screw. They have a thin metal plate on the other side for the screw to attach to. The upper ana takes a mekugi. I'd say 80% of these are lost through time, so people replace them with mekugi. I usually see them for sale with a mekugi in the lower ana and the upper ana empty (likely because someone has removed the upper one to replace the missing screw.

 

Here is one with the ito and same' gone, showing the square where the metal plate fits (missing on this one. A Bubba had put a bolt and nut in it, along with naugahayde for handle wrap!)

[dwmc]

Thanks for the explanation Bruce, I didn't realize the Rinji was designed for the lower mekugi ana to use a threaded screw. I owned a Type 3 for several years which used wooden mekugi pegs, and am rather stunned I hadn't noticed lower threaded type before.

 

Thanks again,

 

Dave M.