Tanto54

The other menuki looks like a flower - they may not be a matched set. Can we see the backs?

+1 The baleen is in pretty good condition too. As that is fairly rare these days, you should do what you can to preserve it. The few loose strands can be secured with clear lacquer (or clear nail polish).

Dear Brian, Sorry, it is not a menuki - it is a tobacco pouch ornament. You can tell this by the vestiges of the two soldered posts (as you know menuki only have one). In addition, if this were a menuki (which it is not) then the single central post would be exactly where the signature plate is. Low quality tobacco pouch ornaments were pressed, but good quality ones are made exactly like menuki (except for the number of back posts). Here's a tobacco pouch - see the Kanagu on the front - looks just like a menuki. The second photo is the "snap clasp" that is attached to the Kanagu on the back side of the pouch flap (it's basically a snap)(in this second photo, the pouch itself is missing). See the two places marked with red circles? That is where the two thin posts from the back of the Kanagu come through the pouch flap and are attached to this snap plate. In the third photo, you can see the same two attachment points on the "snap clasp" that is still mounted on a tobacco pouch flap (the decorative kanagu is on the other (front) side of the flap). The fourth photo is the back of a kanagu with the two thin posts and the "snap plate". Quite often when the kanagu is taken off the tobacco pouch the two thin posts are broken off leaving only the solder (I've literally seen thousands of these). You can always tell Kanagu (tobacco pouch ornaments) from menuki because they have two thin wire like posts soldered to the back about an inch apart (instead of a thicker single post in the middle for a menuki).

Based on the post size and placement (evidenced by the remaining solder) this is a mae-kanagu (tobacco pouch clasp) instead of a menuki.

Hi Piers, Perhaps the five elements (think Miyamoto Musashi's Book of the Five Rings) in seal script.

Dear Souledge, Penetrating oil is OK - just don't get it on the nakago (tang). There are many posts here on the NMB on how to remove a habaki (just search "stuck habaki" and require both words in the results). Don't touch the blade (except the kakago/tang) with your bare hands - the oils and salts from your hands will cause additional damage (I know it's already pretty rusted, but you don't want to add to it). Look in the faqs for an article by Grey about how to handle and protect your sword. Here's a good post on removing a stuck habaki that I found: https://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/22966-how-to-remove-a-habaki/?tab=comments#comment-232866

I understand that Jingasa were for all levels (low to high) and were just more of an everyday hat (those that had both, used the kabuto in battle). Here's one of mine - iron but light and lacquered gold underneath (I also understand that the color of lacquer underneath was a sign of social status - e.g., black, red, gold).

Darrel, the Kashira is an awabe or abalone...

I particularly like the shells holding the kashira on (which appears to be an awabe or abalone).

Dear Colin, Most tsuba that have this "Chinese Landscape" scene with a solitary person on a mountain path with a temple/pagoda at the top are references to Mount Hōrai (Mount Penglai). As one of our most scholarly and humorous members (Guido Schiller) taught us years ago in reference to "Hōrai Tsuba": "蓬莱 Hōrai is a legendary, holy Chinese mountain in the Eastern Sea that is often visited by hermits. 鶴亀 tsurukame (crane and turtle) are symbols of a long life. They both can be synonymous for each other, so tsuba that have a motif of crane and/or turtle and/or rocks and/or pine trees and/or bamboo are often referred to as 蓬莱図 (Hōrai-zu)." However, in this particular case, I think your tsuba refers to Dewa Sanzan - a set of three holy mountains in Japan that have been the location of a rebirth pilgrimage for the past 1,400 years. These mountains were visited by royalty and poets (including Basho), and near the top of one of the mountains there is a famous pagoda partially hidden among ancient cedars and a temple. At the foot of the mountains there is a lake with an old teahouse that juts out over the water. That appears to contain all the elements of your tsuba. Your Tsuba: Mount Hōrai Tsuba: Dewa Sanzan Drawing (showing slopes that match your tsuba):

Just saw this and thought some of you might like to see it too.

Hey Brian, hope the back is better! Miyamoto

Noriyuki

Dear Souledge, You are in good hands with Brian. Looks like you have picked up some good information during your reading here. However, just in case, you mentioned the blade "needs some cleaning before any kind of hamon is visible" - please look up the faqs on how to take care of your sword. No abrasives, nothing but a light wiping with machine oil (otherwise you can easily ruin your sword and destroy its value). Congratulations - looks like a nice sword.

Dear Andrew, If I translate Adam's response into polite speech, he is saying that you should be very careful when getting your sword polished. There are very few people (1 or 2) in the US who are qualified to polish swords (even though many claim to be qualified). Those who are not qualified will ruin your sword. You should not use any abrasives or power tools on your sword, just wipe a light coat of machine oil on the blade. The "jagged edged" things are called seppa and yours are very nice quality. When a sword is polished, it is not put back into its original saya (the scabbard) because the saya will have some grit and dirt inside that could scratch the newly polished sword. Therefore, any qualified (or reasonable) polisher would recommend that you get a new shirasaya made for your sword (a simple wooden scabbard and handle without "fittings"). Then the old scabbard and fittings can be restored and will be held together by a tsunagi (a wooden copy of the sword). Often the shirasaya (with the metal blade in it) and original koshirae (scabbard, handle, tsuba, etc. with the wooden tsunagi blade in it) are displayed together (so it looks like two swords to the uninitiated). The really great news is that because the koshirae (scabbard, handle, etc.) of your sword has to be restored some and the blade won't go back in it, you can get almost any fuchigashira (when fuchi and kashira are put together as a word, the "k" changes to a "g") and menuki that you like. The person who restores your tsuka (handle) will be able to make almost any fuchigashira and menuki work. Alternatively, if you want the sword to be back in its koshirae, then you will have to have a new saya made (so it won't ruin your new polish) and you will have to find fuchigashira that work for your blade (once again, the size of the tsuka is less important because it should be remade in the restoration anyway). If I were you, I would contact Ted Tenold (you can find him on this site) for some help. I don't know him personally (and I have nothing to gain by recommending him), but I understand that he is a very honest and helpful person who will probably point you in the right direction.

Hard to tell the size and thickness from your photos, but assuming that your serrated disk is much larger than a standard seppa, I would believe that it would only be on the sword side of another larger disk (so only a two part tsuba). So in mounting, the order would be habaki, seppa, then this serrated disk, then a larger radius tsuba, then a seppa, then fuchi. I know we are used to seeing these kinds of things in pairs sandwiching a single larger tsuba in the middle (like the photo below), but I think this serrated one might have only been on one side (the sword side instead of the tsuka side) because if it is as large as it looks in your pictures and it were on the tsuka side of the larger disk when mounted, then it would hurt the hand in use. Looking at your serrated disk from the top side (the smaller side of the beveled edge) can you see evidence of seppa or habaki wear? I think I see habaki wear, which means that it would not have had another seppa between it and the habaki - thereby indicating that it may have been considered more like a seppa itself. I just cannot see it as a tsuba itself - not practical to carry or use (unless against a larger disk with a smoother edge).

Dear Piers, It seems have a bevel toward one side indicating that it was sandwiched with something else (probably with a bigger radius that protected the wearer from the serrated edge).

Dear Piers, Are you saying that the mimi of the tsuba is serrated like a saw? I think that tsuba have similar rules to netsuke and must be wearable. I don't think that you could wear or carry such a tanto comfortably. More likely the tsuba is one of those "Jesuit" or "watch gear" tsuba that has lost its furukin. Also, the kogatana with a serrated edge are generally thought to be bonsai tools (instead of romantic Ninja tools....)

Adam, I was being factual and constructive. You brought up the Masachika Fuchigashira in this thread in response to comments by Dirk and Ken. You then asked why you should bother putting them through shinsha because you were already so sure they were by Bushu Masachika (even though you say elsewhere that John Lissenden thought the signature on the Fuchi was by a different Masachika - Tsuchiya from the Nara school). Therefore, I answered your question with facts of how shinsha could help and that the Fuchi and Kashira did not match in quality, motif, style, carving, chisel marks or alloys; therefore supporting the conclusion that they are not a pair and the Fuchi is probably not by Masachika. My PMs to you have only offered information about your pieces and a request that you behave yourself better on this forum.

Thanks Adam, just to clarify, my statement of interest in this Fuchigashira was made a long time ago in relation to another thread before I had seen the supposedly matching Kashira. Just like here, in that earlier thread you posted a picture of the Fuchi without the Kashira... (why do you keep doing that??? Why not post pictures of the Fuchi and Kashira together?) Now that I've seen the Kashira, I wouldn't be interested in them as as set (but would be interested in the dragon as an orphan - it is really good - I mean that sincerely). In this thread, you asked Dirk why should you bother with papers for this set of Fuchigashira. Well, papers would give you an authoritative answer (but I'm fairly certain that they won't paper by the NBTHK as a set - as mentioned before, the quality, motif, style, carving, chisel marks and alloys do not match).

Hey Adam, that dragon Fuchi is very nice, but as discussed, it is probably not a pair with the Kashira that you have.

Dear JP, You play by those rules (of accepting diversity of thought) and so do I, but unfortunately Rayhan (Kawa) does not. It is clear, to him it is his way or none at all - that's what I can't stand. Everyone else started over but he's still doing the same thing. I think that you know me from many years on the NMB - I always try to help out. However, I'm getting tired of him trying to ruin our community and speak down to us like he's special - he is not special that is clear by his behavior.

So Rayhan (Kawa now?), you beat the drum for honesty in sales and collecting - sounds very good and noble. Do you follow your own advice? When you find a sword that is a bargain, do you tell the seller that it is under priced (before purchasing) or that he or she has missed something in evaluating the sword? Don't you have the same obligation of integrity that you are preaching from your soapbox to everyone else including sellers (whether dealers, old Veterans, flee market sellers, pawn shop owners, etc.)? I'm not a dealer or seller (nor am I beholden to any of them), but I am getting tired of your pretentious sermons and disruptions of a Board that already has a good ethos.

Dear Adam, you suggest that sellers should provide all possible information in their sale advertisements. Referring to two of your other posts, shouldn't you take your own advice when dealing with a craftsperson to get your tsuka wrapped or when trading tosogu? You are expecting sellers to provide all possible information (instead of expecting buyers to be adults and follow caveat emptor). Shouldn't you have provided all detailed information to the craftsperson with the shipment of your tsuka instead of assuming that he would do what you thought or contact you to ask? Similarly, shouldn't you have laid out all your expectations for quality, return period, etc. before sending your items for trade. I'm not a seller here, but I think you and Rayhan are trying to turn this into some Gestapo type forum with a bunch of rules (that you yourselves won't follow). Just really getting tired of all the improper comments on sales here.

Dear Adam, Sweet thought about Jizo, but this is definitely Hotei instead of Jizo for various reasons. First of all, Hotei dumping a child out of his treasure sack is a very common motif in Japanese art. Remember that a "sack" in Japan can be more like a furoshiki that is simply a large square cloth that can have its corners gathered together to hold things like a sack. For example, see the painting below: Hotei has the four corners of his furoshiki tied in a big knot behind his neck and he wears the "sack" (with the child in it) in front by putting his head through the opening below the knot) . If you look at the "adult" on your tsuba (see a copy of your tsuba below the painting), you'll see that he's holding the edge of the cloth in his mouth and dumping the child out of the cloth. It is not his robe or kimono (the fabric of the "sack" is plain while his kimono has a design - look at the shoulders). Furthermore, Jizo is never shown unshaven but Hotei is, and the character on your tsuba is unshaven. Finally, your tsuba takes the humorous approach (Hotei is clearly laughing and the idea of dumping the child out is boisterous), and Japanese do not generally treat Jizo in a humorous manner.