Mark S.

Not going to play nitpick word games with you and entertain foolishness. If NBTHK won’t pass a sword because they determine it’s gimei, they are clearly stating it’s gimei. Of course they don’t issue gimei papers, but it doesn’t change a damn thing I said. Have fun arguing with yourself…

Do they have to defend when they label something gimei? They already determine gimei. No change to what they do now. Do they have to defend when they give an attribution to a mumei blade? They already give attribution to unsigned blades. No change to what they do now. Combine the two and CLEARLY STATE IT ON THE PAPERS… no change and no more liability than what they do now.

No… they certify that is IS gimei, which they already do by declaring it gimei and then make an attribution based solely on the blade which they already do in the case of mumei blades. Both could be annotated on the papers. Other than ‘that’s the way it is’, I don’t understand it.

It will be probably be a matter of finances vs preservation. IF the regular source of Shoshin and mumei blades ever slows, then gendaito will be papered more frequently and possibly a lot more WW2 blades that aren’t considered now and then they may need to paper gimei blades to keep the money flowing? Maybe a new category? Not quite Hozon, but maybe something else? Someday…

A Dollar Store watch with the Rolex name on it?… no. A REAL Rolex that someone put the Dollar Store logo on for a Dollar Store price?… Maybe.

Really appreciate your time and knowledge.

If you are on the fence, here is what it is like joining the Gold Membership Club and meeting Brian… or as he likes to be called “Mr Brian”…

Thank you for responding and your thorough explanation! I also reached out to Malcolm (author of Mino-to) and he agrees that Zenjo and Yoshisada are one and the same and Zenjo is the correct reading. The Yoshisada reference was based on info at the time (book was written in 1993) but that Zenjo would now be the more correct reading.

I do not wish to hijack or turn this thread away from its original intent, and not to try to justify gimei, but I do wonder how many blades were ordered to be shortened and the original mei lost to the suriage, but the owner wanted the smith who performed the suriage to engrave the original smith’s mei to ‘preserve’ it’s provenance? Gimei?, definitely… but ‘wrong’ or meant to deceive? I guess we will never know.

I think pretty much everyone falls into 2 general camps (NO JUDGMENT OF EITHER CAMP!): CAMP 1: Shoshin blade = highest level Mumei blade = middle level Gimei blade = lowest level or CAMP 2: Shoshin blade = highest level Mumei blade & Gimei blade = same level I think CAMP 1 follow more the NBTHK model and CAMP 2 believe the ‘opinion’ of a mumei blade and gimei blade are the same. The only real difference I can see is if you are comfortable looking past a gimei signature. Once again, not saying either camp is better or right.

I have 2 gimei blades. One is a gimei Tadahiro katana that the NTHK-NPO attributed simply to a “Kanbun Hizen” blade. Several people whose names you would know felt it was still a well made blade and a couple even mentioned that “you can see why they selected it as a good candidate for gimei because it very closely matches Tadahiro’s work.” The second blade is a gimei Awataguchi Tadatsuna wakizashi that the NTHK attributed to a lower level Awataguchi Tadatsuna student. I really like the activity on this one. Side note (and only my WILD speculation) on this one is the “-tsuna” kanji is clearly missing 2 main strokes to the character that you would think someone trying to fake it wouldn’t miss? Could it been someone’s way of clearly saying “It’s close, but fake?” for whatever reason? So at the end of the day, I have two blades I like that are examples that well exhibit the traits of the schools they represent for a fraction of the price. I know many would only want Shoshin examples of the top end smiths and I respect that and understand it. My collection is rather modest and these fit in a niche that make me perfectly happy. Can I impress you with a Tadahiro or Tadatsuna?… clearly “no”. If we meet and want to study blades, can we look at examples of the Hizen and Awataguchi schools?… “yes”, knowing the limitation that these are not ‘perfect’ examples. Will anyone else appreciate these someday? I guess I won’t be around to know.

Last 3 want to be “Kanzan Sato shirusu”, but there is no kao that usually follows his signature? Lots of examples of his signature and kao on line.

I mis-read mei…

There are days I have no idea why you are here other than to remind us that “pictures are useless”. What the hell does your post even mean???

Also, resist ANY urge to use any type of metal polish or anything else to clean blades. You can only do more damage rather than good. ‘Shiny’ is not ‘clean’ or ‘good’ in this case. Not trying to be rude. It’s just that it is really better to do nothing as opposed to ‘something’ right now until you can get some help with what you have.

If you used a wet sponge and ???, please wipe both blades down with as close to 100% isopropyl alcohol and then apply a LIGHT coat of oil to blades. Sewing machine oil or very high grade machine oil (available at local hardware store) NOT WD40 or gun oil with additives. Blades will rust very quickly if left exposed to air and any water or fingerprint remnants remain.

Maybe I have a magic link!

Love New Orleans! Been a more than few years since I was down there, but used to go regularly. Jealous, but at least I get to go to Vegas.

Weird… I have a shortcut on my I-phone (had for years) that still sends me to the site? I just checked and it still works for me.

I’m going… keep me in the loop for dinner or at least let me buy you an adult beverage!

Mine have not arrived either (as of today), so I must be in second group. Patience patience…

Probably not what you are looking for as ‘tree’ and ‘fence’ don’t match your example. Never really considered selling but if it helps someone out…

Thank you all. I really should have labeled this thread “smoky hadori’ and you would think I know better than to call it the ‘hamon’. Don’t know why I did that… but I did. So if I confused anyone, I apologize. I am focusing on the darker grey hadori polish above the hamon.

I know this is a really basic question and hope it won’t cause too many

In pictures, smokiness disappears from this angle, but is still evident in-hand.