Bruce Pennington

A new addition of the Mt Fuji theme on THIS VIDEO shared by @BIG on a Sadakatsu blade with quite unusual (to me) horimono. Don't know if it's new or old, kind of looks new, but still a nice work of art.

Tom nailed it! I learned something today, too! Dawson pages:

So, it looks like these were a production line item. Quite interesting. is that when yours Peter?

Another thing that just occurred to me is that the stamped numbers seem to have started in 1941. Other than the zoheito of the late 1800s, my earliest blades with stamped numbers are July and December 1941. Even dating of blades didn't really take off until the Army assumed control of sword production in late 1941. It is rare to find a blade dated before 1940, they exist but in very small numbers. So, there is more to this than just fitting shops.

On the other hand, a pre-RJT program blade by Munetoshi, July 1941, from Slough, stamped "106", so probably a fitter number but no fittings shown to find out. So, like we've said earlier, the numbers are likely a mixture of fitter shops, Army, and forge shops.

A new variation of the cat-scratch or rain design found HERE:

Geoff, I haven't seen the one in question, but the answer is that, while not common, RS can be found with only 1 mekugi ana. No officially known reason for that. I personally think the blades in them were made with Type 98 (or civil) mounts in mind, but the buyer/sword shop decided they wanted it in RS fittings. War damage leading to re-fittings could explain some too.

I agree, maybe Brian can make the move for us?

You might have mis-read my list. I said the late-war version, like yours, seems to have gendaito - that mean traditionally made. No comment on quality, though since it's RJT, it's probably good-high quality (personal opinion, in general).

Steve, there's a lot of good reading about the Rinji seishiki. I'd start with Nick Komiya's articles: Unveiling Rinjisiehsiki Sword 1940 Legally Rebutting existence Type 3 Sword Deflating Another Myth Type 3 Army Officer Sword Expanded Version There weren't any "official" versions of the model, but you'll see: "Standard" version with light tan saya, usually showato blade "Custom" version with textured, dark saya, 2 Release buttons, usually with gendai blade "Late war" version like yours, turning out to have, so far, gendaito "Manchurian/Island" made Rinji, with low quality blade "Manchurian Mantetsu" unique version with Mantetsu blade That's how I would summarize them.

Nice summary Ed. Found another (cannot tell if it is star-stamped) posted by @george trotter on THIS THREAD. Unusual mei by an unknown smith - Seisui. George thought it might be a pseudonym.

Came across this Dec 1942 Akihisa in Rinji fittings: Stamped 577; Paint "42". Shown by @MacTheWhopper on THIS THREAD. I've asked if the fittings are numbered.

Kenneth, any chance the tsuba/seppa are stamped with a number? "42" perhaps?

No, because you just don't see many of this last-stage version of the Rinji seishiki.

Agreed, he's not in the same category as The Monkey. I've chatted a little with him too, and a good deal of his stuff, or some of it, he sells on consignment. My only complaint of his business practice is that he seems willing to sell anything, even if it's been faked by his supplier. But I've read that much of what he sells is legit, but like Peter said, maybe lower-end stuff. It's like all buying - Buyer Beware - know what you're getting before you get it.

Ok, thanks! This version is not common, so toward the "rare" side of the collecting category. Here's another with a star-stamped (seems to be a pattern here?) Munetoshi:

Thanks Steve, that's perfect! So no other stamps on the back edge (mune) of the nakago? The other Kanemoto I have on file has stamps there.

Steve, You may not know if you don't have it, but does it have stamps on the nakago mune? Could I get a photo with the star visible? Also, one of the double painted fitting numbers "069" and "189". Re-mounted at some point in the war?

I'm bringing a non-RJT blade to the discussion because it's a good example of how difficult it is to pin down this question of stamped numbers on nakago. It's one owned (or posted) by @Stegel. I can't find the original thread or I'd post the link. It's a late-war Type 95 blade, with the ヘ HE of the Heijō Factory of Jinsen Army Arsenal. No bohi, and the fact that it was made by Jinsen puts it in the last year of the war, most likely. It's in "standard" Rinji seishiki fittings, but with a low quality Type 98 tsuba. I'm discussing it because the nakago is stamped "1285" while the fittings are stamped "21". First glance screams "Post-war piece-together!", but I don't think so. I think it was simply last year of the war, Jinsen, or a shop in the area, used whatever parts were available to get an officer gunto put together for a buyer. To my knowledge, there are no NCO Type 95s with stamped numbers on the nakago. So, if it were made for an officer, or re-purposed for one, why would it have "fittings numbers" stamped on the nakago that don't match the fittings? Of course, like the other mis-matched numbers discussed on another thread, the blade could have been re-fitted after some damage to the original fittings, but, in the last year of the war? Seems a stretch. But if the numbers on the nakago aren't fitter stamped, then why are they there? More examples of Jinsen type 95 blades with numbers would certainly help with answers, but this one example seems to tilt the issue a tiny bit toward the numbers being put there by the factory or Army inspectors. Then again, I may be stretching the whole example when the easy answer is the blade was stamped 1285 by the first fitting shop and then re-fitted with the current set of RS fittings after damage, or even post-war. If post-war, that still leaves a sticky-wicket question of why would a Type 95 blade have stamped numbers on the nakago. Which STILL brings the issue around to "not done by fitters." Thoughts?

@Shamsy and/or @Stegel would be able to tell you. I have no reason to believe the 95s started numbers that high. In fact, I've seen a couple of 3-digit serial numbers and I have a vague memory of a 2-digit one. Here's a link to a comment Steve made about the second screw likely being a wartime repair or re-fit: But I believe I've read from one of those guys some actual serial number ranges the double screw version is seen in. I'll update if I find it, or hopefully one of the experts will answer soon.

Thought I'd post these photos of some ashi (civil) and kakihan (military), mostly made for wooden saya with leather cover. They're owned (and for sale) by Dan Watson of Crimson Mist Militaria, located in Australia. His website is down until close to the end of June. There might be some guys looking for items like this. If so, you can email him at crimsonmistATbigpondDOTcom. I have no skin-in-the-game, just thought someone might want to know. It's also interesting from a collector's perspective, I think, to see the many variations in how these things were made.

No Date Nagamitsu Saka 3978 on mune; "3050" painted nakago; fittings unknown Total 4 with mixed stamped and painted numbers:

Ok, these will blow your head up: 1943 Hiromasa (RJT) Date side - stamped 61, paint - "60"; mei side - paint "19" [fittings unknown] 1944 Kanemitsu (RJT but no star) stamped 24, paint "22"; and "1" on tsuba/seppa

While I believe most numbers are fitting shop numbers, some are really challenging. The few examples of matching numbers on Mantetsu are a good example of fitting shops using the existing serial numbers on blades as numbers for their metal parts. Similar examples exist on RJT blades stamped with matching numbers on both blade and fittings. Yet there are two examples in my survey of RJT blades with numbers on the blades that do not match the fitting numbers. Both are from the same prefecture - Niigata - and have the kana/number system: 1943 Akimitsu (RJT) 2138-nakago; イ536-fittings 1943 Munetoshi (RJT) 松 1080-nakago; イ403-fittings Yet I have a: 1942 Masakazu (RJT) 1129-nakago; ニ1129-fittings But he is from Fukushima. So I don't know if the difference is simply shop practice differences or if the nakago numbers are serial numbers and the shop in Fukushima simply used the existing number for their fittings. The non-matching numbers of the Niigata shop seem to support the idea. But it's still just a mystery.

We would all appreciate some official form of help on this, too. To my knowledge, we do not know any more than before. The practice of painting numbers, in my brief years of observation, seem to span all of the arsenals, all of Japan's wartime sword production. A great many of the examples match the stamped numbers on the various fittings, but not all do. I personally believe the non-matching sets are simply due to post-production replacement parts and/or post-war replacements due to missing parts from bring-home gunto in poor condition. I have just begun examining my files to see how many blades have both stamped AND painted numbers on nakago. This example provided by @george trotter on THIS THREAD has non-matching stamped and painted numbers - and none on the seppa/tsuba! It's my guess that the blade was originally made for a Type 98 (only one mekugi ana) and stamped with numbers, but later re-fitted with Rinji-seishiki fittings, with the painted numbers done by the second fitter shop. But that's pure speculation.