Bruce Pennington

My condolences buddy! I don’t think I’ve ever seen anybody get bit by three fakes before. Will the seller take them back?

I had initially wondered if this blade looked shorter than normal, too! I suppose this isn't in your possession, Noah? Would be nice to know the nagasa and compare to a known Type 19 length.

@Chris1980 Chris, is there a date on the other side? Could we get a photo of it and a shot of the whole thing with fittings for the files? Thanks!

Even the saya seems longer that usual. Slightly different, but I own a Type 32 that came in a Type 19 saya. The blade is longer than the saya, and the end of the saya was cut to allow the tip to stick through. I think mine was likely done by Bubba, as there are other patch-work and piece-together issues.

So, the plot thickens! Thanks to @John C, we have a third, "97". But the interesting thing is that it's on a blade in Type 94 fittings. For a while, I couldn't remember what thread I had seen similar numbers, but I figured it out. It's the same style crude numbering as the two posted by @robinalexander and @Stegel. But theirs are Type 95 coppers. After Stegel pointed out the offset machi: I realized we are likely seeing a private purchase NCO blade, by an officer, during the severe sword shortage of the transition from the kyugunto to the Type 94. The WWI styled sword knot fits the timeframe as well. The 3 blades were probably made by the same shop (Suya Shoten?) or arsenal team, hence the numbering. The rest of the blade fits a 95 blade with bohi and tempering, but no real hamon. At first, I thought we were seeing a zoheito, but with the offset machi, I'm convinced it's from the Type 95 team.

Thanks Evan! Nice Rinji seishiki! Nagamitsu made some good looking blades, for sure. And you're right, that stamp is the "Saka" of the Osaka Army Arsenal. I've added yours to the survey and files, thanks again. We'll need @SteveM @Kiipu or @BANGBANGSAN for the surrender tag.

Yes, I agree. I was hoping someone in other fields might recognize it, but it seems no one does. So I could use it over on the military side.

Nice example, and a really nice Kyu! Well-made fat seppa and rain-pattern habaki.

Karl, I have seen quite a few gunto with that gold cord. I believe there is even an NMB thread on it. There are some seen with a red cord. Many believe it comes off the sword bag, but whether is was put there by the original owner or by a returning G.I., no one knows. I've seen so many, I'm starting to wonder if it's been done by the owners and might have some meaning or significance. But it's a big unknown for now. Thanks for the extra photos! Maybe one of the guys that study traditionally made blades can comment? To me, it seems to be a nicely made showato, in other words, non-traditional. You'll find most WWII gunto are showato, as they had to industrialize the swordmaking industry to meet a massive demand for swords. As to Kevin's observation, I have seen a number of smiths with blades in both Type 98 and Type 97 fittings, along with even civil fittings. They say the Seki area produced 70% of all WWII blades, so it is easy to see that they likely supplied swords to the full spectrum of buyers.

We'd enjoy seeing shots of the whole sword and fittings Karl, if you'd honor us with some photos! A couple of close, clear shots of the temper line (hamon) would help also. The blades with the large Seki stamp, like yours, are probably not made in the traditional manner. There have been some rare exceptions, but the vast majority of them seem to be well made, non-traditional blades. So, if a smith was cranking out large numbers of blades for the war effort, using non-traditional methods, it's unlikely (not impossible) that he was using tamahagane. But we're talking odds and chances here, since it's not possible to know conclusively. There are some guys at NMB that are really into metallurgy and steels that may be able to comment, but if the smith didn't specifically say on the mei (signature line), then we don't really know what steel was used.

What the guys said above. If you're considering a buy soon, then posting is your best defense. If you have time to study, start with Ohmura's pages on the Type 95. Only 5 of them, but some immaculate examples of workmanship and stampings for comparison to a prospective item you might be considering. Non-commissioned officers Gunto - Ohmura site

John, I haven't tried tracking that. Might be worth looking into!

Yes all Samurai roll in their graves, and monkey's hang their heads in shame, at this guy's posts.

Wow, what an odd-ball. The blade is much nicer that a "normal" fake, if this is a fake, and the bohi is much better than a fake. The Chinese fakers really like to number the habaki, but that Kokura stamps sure looks right, though I can't say I've ever seen one on a habaki before. The matching numbers on habaki and drag are standard for Type 32s not 19s. Also the metal of the handguard, looking at the edge, seems like steel? or is that just paint? There's something odd about the floral pattern on the backstrap, too, and there is no dimpling on the backstrap. But, again, I don't study these, so please disregard all the above. Posting pics for the future. That sale post will go dead some day.

I see them, and I think I've found the mon, but don't know what it means. So, I'm still flummoxed (ha! has that been posted in the Word of the Day, yet?) that the petals are rounded, yes elongated, and don't have the indentations at the end, even on the mon. Artistic license, I suppose. If you don't know the meaning, I'll post on the Mon thread.

Thanks Thomas, you've probably explained this to me several times over the years! And now we have another one of those out-of-sequence anomalies. The sequencing seems to start over with each year: 1889 Kanemasa 5 95 1889 Kanemasa 7 17 1890 Kanemasa 3 10 1891, Mar " 5 169 1891, Jun " 5 178 1891, Aug " 4 59 1891, Aug " 6 173 1892, Nov " 1 220 1893, Dec " 5 331

Excellent, and beautifully done, thanks buddy! Sorry to be a pest, but how about a clear shot of those on the kake?

Ed, An approximation for the date can be made from the fact the blade is Showa stamped. In my survey, there are 176 undated, stamped blades and only 50 dated ones. Of the dated ones, they range from 1935 to 1942 and 1 in 1945, but the majority (41 of them) are dated 1940-41.

It's a beauty, Noah, nice find! A few of those stamps have been showing up, always on police swords, but we haven't identified it yet. Can you show the police emblem on the backstrap? Dawson, I believe, defines each one.

And this is why I always defer to you as the Type 8/19 King! But doesn't it bother you that there are no notches in the tips of the sakura leaves? The tips are round like plum blossoms, which is commonly found on Chinese fakes, because they used plums not cherries in their militaria.

Love it! But you're thinking. Government officials aren't allowed to do that. Dangerous! Ha! Just for the fun of the discussion, though, there was a Pacific commander (don't remember CINCPAC acronym from back then) order in 1946 that outlawed war trophy bringbacks, so maybe that would have been a problem? Also, as I understand it, the reason McArthur let them make the souvenirs was his need to revitalize Japanese industry and economy. So that alone probably would have been a deciding factor.

Tom, Your question of "authenticity" - it is an authentically made Japanese sword, not a fake. If you'll check out the article in Thomas' link, you'll see how and when these were made. But the short version is that Tenshzan factory made over 8,000 of these immediately after the war, on contract with the 8th Army PX store. They sold some, also, through the local store Japanese Sword Shop (if I have that name right). I like these swords, own one myself, as they were the last swords Japan made due to WWII.

Icky! I think you're right on this one.

Nice one John! The blade tip doesn't look like a standard zoheito. Maybe a Muratato? Can anyone make out the date? I see Meiji (1868) [?] 4 year, 8 month. It's that one kanji I don't recognize: The fittings are really well made, too bad about that wire wrap. Also numbered "4 59"

I know we discussed this one, John, but cannot find where we held that discussion. I vaguely remember it being proposed as a Kobe related stamp, but don't recall getting a consensus from @Kiipu or @BANGBANGSAN on that. The style and location on the nakago strike me as a forge or company logo. Religious symbols are found down there, too. Personal kao are usually located closer to the end of the mei. At best, I would speak of it as "possibly a company logo, like Kobe steel works, but unconfirmed." Piers, @Bugyotsuji, thanks for the link! That's the first Showa stamped Kazunori I've seen.