Bruce Pennington

Wow! This could be something, as we are already leaning to the Inaba forge being the source of one of the marks. Now if we could just tie the mustache stamp to the Takayama forge!!!

Thanks for posting, Ian! It fits what we know of the island swords. The thing that often tips the scales for me is legitimate aging and use. Real wear and tear, that is old. We've seen attempts to fake that, but this one looks real.

Thanks Trystan! So are you proposing the mark is an inspector mark of the Tenshzan shop? or another shop in the Kamkura area? I could picture it as a contractor inspector stamp of Tenshzan, since the specialized Tenshozan anchor is an army inspector stamp. Maybe this mark was being used by Tenshozan's own inspectors?

One on request for Adam - @Deoma:

Out of time, for now, but I do recall police swords with the police emblem on the 'ear' and sakura on the backstrap. Either in Dawson or Plimpton.

The second entry: A 1942 Koa Isshin Mantetsu Kanteisho rating from NTHK-NPO

Thanks Thomas. Didn't expect to get it right the first time! Corrections made, but you'll have to delete your own post, if you wish, I cannot.

First enry from @SRDRowson found HERE. A Seki-stamped Kanetsugu, January 1942. Kanteisho rating, by NTHK-NPO before they instituted their "no showato" policy:

At @Bruno's suggestion, let's start tracking, for reference, showato that have received shinsa papers. Please correct me if I have this wrong, but there are showato that come with registration papers, but they are not what we are tracking. We are tracking NTHK and NBTHK papers. To complicate matters, I've just learned that there is an NTHK and an NTHK-NPO: From Bruno: "I have been told a bit more informations recently by Chris B. "The NTHK split into 2 groups after the death of the head of the group. One faction continued under the family and adopted son of the former head, the other faction incorporated as a non-profit group recognized by the Japanese government and continues as the NTHK-NPO. This split occurred more than 20 years ago. The papers being discussed are by the Yoshikawa NTHK group, not the NPO. The NPO publishes a statement in every issue of their journal that states clearly that they will not paper mass produced, arsenal made, showa-to." I'm posting the 2 I can find. If anyone knows of more, please add.

Trystan, Could you give me an English version of that name for my files? John, I have 3 of these on file: The one posted by Trystan One from Wehrmacht-awards And from Guns.ru

If you don't find any uniform experts, here at NMB, try Wehrmacht-awards.com Japanese Militaria forum. They have a lot of uniform collectors over there. Too bad the top photo doesn't have enough clarity on the zoom, the sword is either a police or navy patrolman sword, but it looks more police to me. Might help in the ID of the uniform.

Did you paint the flag, John?

How do you pronounce "ADH"? Ha! Sorry to be a name nazi, but we really like names at NMB. Seriously, this is a good one to post on the Help Identify our Mons thread.

Would need to see better photos of the fittings. And even though mumei, I'd want to see the nakago. The leather covered saya could mean an older, family blade inside. The lacquered tsuka on this style 98 is unusual. Not completely unheard of, but quite uncommon. Finally, I'm leary of the menugi/mon. We just had a discussion of new, Chinese fake mons showing up and this one really looks that way to me. I could be completely wrong (have been wrong before), but to me, this one has possible issues. Could simply be a newly re-wrapped tsuka from something old and damaged.

John, Sorry, I've been chasing too many rabbits lately, both here and at home. I'm catching up with you a bit. Posting your notes vertically: I looked back over your original posts and don't see a photo of these markings on the tsuka. Can you post for us? Also, the photo of all the seppa is too blurry to see the markings, can we get a good clear shot of them too? So there are 3 markings on the tsuka? "HO" "2" and the logo? And the notes at the bottom - they aren't from writing on the souvenir, are they? Are they just your research notes?

Just found one on file that shows the strokes the best:

That is a question best presented to guys like @mecox and @george trotter But, the fact that you've found the mark on a Toyosuke tsuba (sorry, don't remember if you've already shown that to me! Can you post for my files?) actually supports the idea of it being a shop logo. There are many tsuba in the files with various shop logo stamped on them. Hmmmm..... shop logo???? Interesting. This points back to my question about the Inaba Tanrenjo.

OHHHH! The saya is original, but the drag was actually removed! Also interesting, is the grey paint. @Stegel has a couple of these, I believe, in his collection and the paint looks wartime period paint. There is even some on the semegane, which supports my postulation that it was "converted" to an officer gunto by someone who bought the NCO sword during the sword shortage. A very interesting item you have there. @robinalexander

Thanks Steve! My morning eyes weren't quite open enough!

Rob, The market is wonky right now, but they are running from $1,800 to 2,400 right now. Before COVID, they were selling for $3,600.

What forum would you recommend? It would be of interest to both Nihonto and Military groups.

Mitch, The blade is apparently a Nagoya Arsenal blade and legit. The saya (scabbard) seems to have been a replacement from an earlier copper-handled gunto. They had no drag. Could you show a photo of the matching serial number on the saya throat? The band is called a semegane (scabbard ring) and belongs on officer gunto, not NCO gunto. Does it look like it's been there for a long time? Dirt/grime build-up around the edges, maybe? Or does it look like it's been added post-war? I'm curious as to how well the saya throat piece fits on the rest of the saya. Can you show a photo of the other side where the retaining screw is, and the juncture where the pieces fit together? If there had not been matching numbers, I'd say right off that the scabbard was a piece-together conglomeration. But why would a Bubba have a matching saya throat but not the original saya and have to find another saya to replace it with? That makes me think the saya was a field replacement. But the semegane? Could the whole rig be one of the officer purchase/rentals of an NCO sword? It would make the whole rig appear more closely to being an officer sword. @Stegel @Shamsy @BANGBANGSAN

I, just yesterday, heard a discussion on the radio of a couple guys who were investigating the threats of AI. One of them stated that he very clearly caught ChatGPT making stuff up! It's claim about orange being a color of courage is in direct conflict with Rob's posted quote from a Japanese source saying the same thing about yellow. Could they both carry the same significance? Anything's possible I guess, but at least with Rob's search we have a credible source. With ChatGPT, we have no idea of it's source.

The first option is that the mark is like all other fitter/assembly markings, put there by whomever marks blades and fittings to keep them together. That is what we assume in almost all other cases. However, my hesitancy comes from knowing there are known cases of fitters using marks already on blades to mark the fittings with. For example, I have Mantetsu on file where the fitters used the serial number on the fittings, while other Mantetsu have painted numbers added that match the fittings. Additionally, there are RJT blades with stamped numbers that, I believe, were there before the fitters got hold of the blade and used the stamped number for their fittings, versus RJT blades, with stamped numbers, that have different painted numbers that match the fittings. I don't know if I explained that well. But to me, it could be either way with these additional marks on Toyokawa blades. But the fact that the Inaba-like stamp is only found on Inaba blades speaks to me of something other than a fittings mark, and the fitters simply used the mark that was already there to mark their parts. I definitely could be wrong.

John is the guy to ask, but from what I've learned (from him!) is: - Double haikan (ahsi) or signs on the saya that one used to be there - Centered chuso button - Thicker tsuba There are probably more signs, but these are all I know. You can find centered buttons, like the one above on Type 98s. So, this alone is not indicative of a gunto being a 94.