Bruce Pennington

That's gorgeous Bill. I can't wait to get mine polished.

Clearly not Japanese. Even if it was something from an occupied country, it was poorly made. But the tsuka wrap is too new to be original war-era.

While the real pros are working on the smith - The mix of army fittings on the clearly navy gunto make this, what is commonly called, a Marine Landing Sword. The IJN did not have "marines" as a seperate unit, but the navy troops that worked on land were often known to take up this style of saya with army fittings. They were originally gold-gilded like the navy fittings, but the gilding seems to wear off somehow. Nice blade! And yes, the painted numbers are 45 just like the stamped numbers on the seppa. Everyone agrees they were there to keep fitted parts together during manufacture and assembly.

John, we love doing this, and like to help, but dude! we need better pics - full handle, tang with writing, tip of blade, full view of blade and scabbard. All those things tell about the sword. Even with the 2 pics posted, though, it seems an odd mix of Type 3 gunto (sword) in a Type 98 saya (scabbard). And "Noshu" would be the province the smith worked in.

Thomas, the civil/police/naval prison patrol swords are an area I've never studied, so forgive the long post, but I'm interested in learning! As I understand it, the police were part of the civil rank structure, correct? This sword does seem to fit the pattern of police swords in Dawson's book, yet it has an unusual floral pattern on the backstrap, and doesn't seem to have any of the police badges. I've also never seen this style backstrap without the "ears" and the blossom set apart on the handle. Dawson has a forestry dirk (pg 181) with a seperated blossom. Dawson, pg 367, also has a Manchukuoan sword with a similar backstrap, and in the description, Dawson says this pattern "shares its basic design with the swords authorized for Japanese patrolmen and sergeants and with the swords authorized for Japnese naval prison guards and shore patrol sailors." So this sword does seem to lean toward a policeman sword, but I'm curious about the lack of actual police badge.

Actually a better movie for gunto sightings was the Japanese-made "Emporer in August" about the effort to stop the emporer's announcement of surrender. Had a couple of scenes in a command center where the soldiers stacked their gunto in racks. Several had the white-wrapped tsukas.

Incredible accuracy! But they still puzzle me - why go to all that effort to manufacture something that well and still not pay attention to simple detail like the color of the paint?

Navy Arsenal stamp at the top of the nakago, not enough view to see which one. Unusual single hanger. Maybe the other one was removed. Could have had a leather combat cover, but now gone. Price is actually a little low for a Kai-gunto.

Flemming, I, like several others are puzzled by the unusually small nakago (tang). Would you do us a favor when the gunto arrives, of taking the kisaki off and getting some good pics posted of that area where the tang meets the blade? The sword clearly has a hamon. I'm not expert on that aspect of Japanese swords, so hopefully, we can get the real pros to evaluate when you get it home and take more pics. Don't be concerned about the skeptical comments. Some folks are offset when they see something unusual. I've seen enough to know that, while there IS a standard these go by, there are always exceptions. Their concern is that the fakes are so prevelant, it is a constanct battle identifying them and weeding them out. Yours does not look like a fake.

Fleming, That's "58". Numbers were used to keep parts together, since they were fitted and sized to each gunto.

Ok, found it - the last one is Haruhisu. Haven't personnally seen one from that smith, though. and a correction to my reference to F&G above - that page came from Slough.

Frank (sorry I missed seeing your name the first time!), I agree fully. There are other forums that specialize in swords of other countries that might be able to lock in the ID of your sword, but I'd say you nailed it down pretty good! I'm sure I can speak for everyone here when I say that we agree with your horror at the things done in the name of war. Anyone who cares about right & wrong, about humanity, would. But to say that one loves the craftsmanship of a sword or gun or a crescent wrench, isn't saying that they agree with terrible things done with them. But I wouldn't lump all soldiers of any war into a cookie-cutter mold. It is well known today, that most German and Japanese troops were just trying to serve their country and the people they loved (and many weren't there by choice). There were evil people doing evil things, but there were plenty of good people serving right next to them. Try reading "Baa, Baa, Black Sheep," "Flyboys" and "Unbroken." You will see examples of both.

Hi fschwep! Your blade is not Japanese but it is a nice one made in another nation, maybe during WWII. Many nations made their own swords during the war. Some of them during Japanese occupation, and were used by indigenious soldiers fighting for/and against the Japanese. Here is a link of a thorough discussion of this very subject: http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/19199-was-there-any-type-of-production-of-Japanese-swords-in-occupied-territories-during-wwii/?hl=java&do=findComment&comment=197457 I consider it an honor to be the caretaker of these weapons. Many men gave their lives selflessly to fight for their people. These weapons represent the honor and sacrifices they lived by.

Thanks Stegel! I added that to my collection. I have seen 2 or 3 Mantetsu's with W's but that's a good one to save! Fuller commented in his book that he thought it was struck in error, but I'm starting to see several of these, so it was clearly intentional. What I'd like to do next, is see if it's possible to get the locale, province or city the three known smiths were working in. Unfortunately, from the start, Fuller says they were unlisted. (actually there were four - Takehisa, Yoshiharu, Yoshitoni and (dang, I can't find it. His name started with an M, but I can't find the refernce)

Bill, you know what you have, don't you? It's a 1938, Dalian Factory stamped Mantetsu blade. According to Fuller&Gregory, the only year with that stamp, so RARE! Mantetsu blades used Manchurian steel produced by and for the South Manchurian Railway, and used for the Mantetsu blades, as well as shipped to Japan for use by other smiths.

Since we're on Mantetsu-to -- Reading my F&G, Fuller states that the Koa Isshin blades were made in Japan, while the Mantetsu (no Koa Isshin slogan) were made in Manchuria. Does anyone know WHERE in Japan the Koa Isshin blades were made?

I thought I might try to narrow down the district or province these smiths worked. It might add to the search for the origin of the W stamp. Here's the first hint I've found: "Stephen Oyabun Members 6,961 posts LocationI OWE WAY Posted 04 August 2009 - 11:20 AM Is that from a early F&G he may be from the Yoshichika group Yoshichika Ke (良近) The following smiths are members of the Yoshichika group: 1. Yoshichika (良近) 1.1. Nidai Yoshichika (良近) 1.2. Sukeyuki (介之) 1.3. Kiyonosuke (神之助) 1.4. Yoshiharu (義治) above from the Tokyo Kindai tosho index" Is it safe to say, assuming this is the same Yohiharu, that he was operating in the Tokyo area?

Found W stamps on just a few smiths, so far: Takehisa, Yoshiharu, and Yoshitani. (F&G, and JapaneseSwordIndex - http://www.japaneseswordindex.com/showa.htm Seems to be a pretty small group of blade manufacturers. Possibly the same inspector stamping the officer gunto of the smiths above was somehow invovled with some of the NCO production line as well.

I've gotten a close look at that fuchi. Comparing it to the clearly brass habaki and the copper handle, I'd say it looks more like copper than brass.

And again from Julian: A Tokyo First Arsenal beside the spiked circle. It's hard to see from this pick, but Fuller and Gregory have this same combo and the image inside the circle is "TO" meaning sword, but he states the stamp's origin is unknown.

And here is the replyy from George: george trotter Sai Jo Saku Members 2,096 posts Posted Yesterday, 12:44 AM Sorry, had some trouble (old and stupid)... The mark is that of Nakano Shoten, a sword shop of Tokyo. Here is a (cropped) advert from 1942, from p.204 of Dai Nihon Token Shoko Meikan 1942. The shop was in Kanda Ku, Higashi Fukuta cho and they had branches elsewhere. Hope this helps.

I'm copying this post from another thread because of the new (to this thread) stamp: he_ozzy_samurai Chu Jo Saku Members 36 posts LocationN.S.W, Australia Posted 28 April 2016 - 11:59 PM Hey guy's I purchased a couple tsuka's that have markings i have not seen or in positions not seen before? well by me anyways?,i have a few gunto's with arsenal markings on kabo,but normally with a star and circle with spikes on one side and tokoyo stamp on other, i had 3 of them from memory all the same,well these 2 handles i purchased seem a bit odd to me? one only has the 1 star stamp in the middle? and the other handle has what looks to me like E or some kind of symbol? as i said i had a couple of these i know these stamps are not that common but these 2 tsuka's are just strange to what i have had or seen,i only purchased them purely for the markings,can anyone help or explain what that back to front E symbol is?thanks guys' Julian

Julian, Fuller & Gregory, pg 61 has a pic of a Kabuto-gane with the exact combo of Tokyo First arsenal and "unidentified" spiky circle! He called it "uncommon." George, any info that you know of on that? Also, Julian, about the officer's club - all officers were required to buy thier own gunto and the primary source was the officer's clubs. There were 2 chains, one headed by Tojo and the other by Yamamoto! NCOs were issued their gunto. Guys, if you don't mind, I'd like to copy and paste these stamps on the pinned "Arsenal Stamps" thread. I don't think they have the Nakano Shoten or the spiky circle stamps?

Hamfish, I took me a while to think on it, but Kurt beat me to the idea - it's not the art of the swrord that makes it popular to those who love it, it's that it was a fabulous weapon. Everyone comes to collecting with their own personal tastes in mind.

Here's an article from a Japanese newspaper from WWII explaining that the gunto were highly prized back then: "Manchurian steel was highly prized by the Japanese swordsmiths as evidenced by the following article. Japanese-American Courier, Seattle, Washington, June 4, 1938 [Note: This article first appeared in Japan Times.] TOKIO -- Swords are still a prime necessity in war time, despite airplanes, armored tanks, machine guns and repeating rifles. It has been found, and the government has taken special steps, to see that officers have blades which will suit their needs. However, the blades they carry these days are not up to the standards of olden times, according to Hikosaburo Kurihara (see note), expert swordsmith, who recently returned from the Shanghai area, where with a party of smiths he has repaired 15,000 swords for Japanese officers. So great was the need found for this repair work that the master smith has gone to the North China area, where he will attend to the needs of the officers there. Manchurian steel has been found the best material for blades as proved by experience of officers in the Shanghai district, the expert said, and he recommended to the War Ministry that metal of that kind be used in future whenever found available. "We mended about 15,000 swords in Shanghai," the swordsmith said at his home in Hikawacho, Akasaka-ku. "Blades of good steel do not snap easily, as did some of those we found. I recommended to the War Ministry that they make available Manchurian steel to all the swordsmiths in the country. It is about as strong as any we know of." "An officer with a damaged sword, and who expects a battle next day is a pitiful sight. I saw many of them working late at night on their weapons, which may mean life or death to them." (3) [NOTE: Hikosaburo Kurihara was also known as Kurihara Akihide, the founder of the Nihonto Tanren Denshujo (Japanese Sword Forging Institute).]" From Japaneseswordindex.com: http://www.japaneseswordindex.com/koa.htm