Bruce Pennington

Does make you wonder, especially with the provenance of the sword you've posted.

Thanks to everyone for all the good information!

I assume this is not a souvenir sword? You can’t tell just by looking at the kabutogane. I can see a fabric under the wrap, so the two of them combined points toward late war assembly.

Well, I don't know if @robinalexander wants his name to be mentioned publicly (HA! Sorry Rob!) but he made a replacement liner for me a little while ago. Might contact him about it.

Which backs up our idea that the souvenir operation was, at least initially, using surplus parts.

Yes. I have seen actual gunto, like this, that have both the simplified kabutogane & the 1-piece fuchi/seppa. The style clearly originated before war's end. So, the Tenshozan operation with the souvenir either used the style to imitate, or they had lots of war suplus of them, and then produced their own. But it's fascinating to see that they originated while the war was still on.

Have you tried taking your old ones out yet? I have found some of mine will come out, and some refuse all attempts to be removed. I like your idea though!

Thanks, Peter! Don't know if you've read our article on these discoveries yet, but it's in our Download section here: It's a couple years old, and covers everything prior to our recent discussions on Toyosuke and the black painted number inventory.

Spotted by our buddy @lucidorise. On a Hisakuni blade. Thoughts (and translation, of course!), please, and Thank You!

Found a duplicate "50" on This Warrelics Thread. Similar to my souvenir "50" except the nakago jiri is shaped and finished. The number is on the date side, rather than the mei side. My 50 is on the mei side.

We don't have a dedicated thread for Late War Kaigunto (one on Warrelics, though), so I'm posting this here. A mumei, late war kaigunto in leather covered saya, with army kabutogane. I've seen similar ones around. Note the kabutogane doesn't have the sakura and leaves around the edges (not a good shot, but I think I'm right about that). So the style we see on the souvenir is fashioned off this tone-down late war fashion, I think. Found on this Warrelics Thread.

What da heck are those cords tied to the haikan?

That’s quite a Kai, John, in every way!!!

Yes

Welcome! Someone should be able to translate it for you, it looks like a name. But I should point out that this is a Army gunto, not a kaigunto. Kaigunto are Navy.

I never took the time to track him down, as to where he worked. As to the jiri, it's a mystery. In 1943, production, as far as I know, was normal. I could see in the last year of the war, when we were pounding their productions sites, somebody doing a rush job to crank out blades, under demands for increased numbers! But that wasn't the case in '43. And I don't personally see the purpose of cutting off a hotstamp. I have no record of Yoshishige using one either. I could have been something as simple as human error. Large pile of blades needing finish work, and one gets overlooked. Or maybe that day when this blades was made, Yoshishige was behind his quota, or the forge was behind the quota and blades simply didn't get full finish work to speed up the process. That would be my quess. Sorry I couldn't offer more help!

That’s my suspicion too, Hamish. There is no way someone put an “old samurai blade“ in these fittings. Just trying to be nice until the guy produces more evidence.

Just came across this one, John. Justin, @Mortis posted with this explanation, HERE. "Here’s one. All of the other fitting numbers match, so I can’t imagine the tassel isn’t original as well. This sword was found wrapped in a blanket in the rafters of a barn in Pennsylvania. Those that I obtained it from weren’t collectors. With that in mind, I highly doubt it was added at a later time."

Sorry about resurrecting an old thread, but hoping @Mortis might see this and give us some pics of the blade/nakago. He hasn't been on the site since 2020, so odds are against it, unless he gets an email from the mention.

At best, a sword by in occupied lands, not made by Japanese; At worst - Chinese fake. Like Ray said, photos of the nakago (tang) are important. He claims it carries an "old samurai blade." Photos will tell.

Posting some of the photos available for discussion His description: Original/Reproduction: Original Region of Origin: Japan ww2 Japanese officers sword. With old samurai blade 40 1/8 in scabbard 25 5/8 blade

Boy, Rob, China has saturated AU ebay, haven't they!? I think I only saw 2 (including this one) real WWII gunto. The rest were fakes.

Good one, Rob! Tried looking up the swords with provenance, but I didn't keep a screenshot of the post. I'd have to re-search each of the 30 on file to find the stories.

Jean gave the answer I was looking for. It was done in the past, so your etiquette question is partially answered. I think most of the push-back you're getting is because the majority of us at NMB collect to preserve history. Making a change to a blade, today, is sort-of heretical, Ha! I've done some refurbishing to a couple of my WWII gunto, but I will never sell them. I intend (note to self, I should do this soon) to make note cards to the refurb'ed gunto so that when my wife or daughter sells them after my death, the new owner will have full disclosure.

John, Dawson covers these extensively on pages 90, 98, and 99. He's actually got this exact one in his collection! I could see adding this example with a description on how to decipher them to the Stamps doc (have to figure out a good spot for it). Dawson has 10 examples on those 3 pages. I wouldn't see the point in having more than 1 for our purposes. He says the small stamps at the bottom are inspector stamps. I've shied away from most pre-WWII stamps simply because there are many and we have no documentation to identify them by. As to bayonets, it's an area I have no interest in. I'm vaguely aware that there are reference books on them from discussions on Gunboards and other forums. If you would like to draw up a page that covers the bayonet stamps and send it to me, PM or email, we could consider it.