Bruce Pennington

Ed, That's an aluminum saya, and while not rare, they aren't that common either. Quite normal to see the paint coming off. I don't personally know of someone who restores saya. You see them coming out of Japan fully restored, but I don't know who would do that in the States. I tried my hand at it on an NCO saya, and I'm not happy with how it looks. Tough to get a legit color for WWII Japan, and it looks too new. I'd personally leave it as it is, as it's all original, showing the life of the gunto.

Hope you haven't bought it yet, Mihai. Check Ohmura's site for lots of pictures of real ones: About a military swords (Guntō) (ohmura-study.net) I don't know the European market, but in the US, officer swords range from $900 - 1,400 USD. Swords with to can go quality nihonto can go much higher.

Interesting design, thanks Neil! Solves the problem by keeping the flap open & closed.

Neil, or anyone who owns one of these - Are these latches on a spring? Hard to tell from the photos. They appear to stay open when raised, but they must have a spring to hold them closed or they'd flap about with the blade out. If on a spring, how do you avoid the flap from rubbing against the blade as it is withdrawn?

Mickie, Welcome to NMB! We have a growing group of Colorado collectors! A couple in C-Springs and a couple in Denver. When the pics come in, I'd enjoy seeing the rest of the fittings as well. Nice looking sword. Old, family swords were usually refitted, like yours, with a military handle (tsuka) and handguard (tsuba), then leather cover over either the original wooden scabbard (saya) or a new one. The style is referred to as a Type 98 officer sword (gunto).

I still own the bad fake I bought in the beginning! At least yours is made of some legit Japanese sword parts.

Well, the document said "daggers", so we don't know if they were tanto or dirks. Until this week, I personally wasn't even aware of the fact. I'd brushed right past the point when researching the souvenir sword. So, short answer is - no. Well, I hope we gave you the answers you were searching for. Like we said earlier, I think there was a good chance these were being sold at that Korean PX you found.

I can't read the tag, nor Trystan's post. Here's a google translation: : Shigezaburo Akamatsu

Ha! Maybe he had been watching the same video!

Thanks to Doug - @jeep44 - for the Leatherneck Magazine article. I'm posting the pages below. It did not help us with the souvenir question. It does say they were making "fine steel blades." Like Doug said, the forge got started up as "Marines...brought in their souvenir blades for repair jobs." The rest of the article discusses the story of NCOs getting custom uniform swords made for half the price of one bought back home, but these were US military NCO swords. Now, who knows how technically savvy the author was in using the term "souvenir." Was he lumping all war trophies under that label, like most civilians would? Or did he actually know the difference and was referring to the souvenirs in question? I would find it hard to believe that guys were bringing in brand new souvenir blades, unless they were playing with them, whacking things with them and causing damage, which is certainly possible. Even so, it doesn't tell us who made the souvenir in the first place. Still a good read:

Yes thanks: bwp1977ATgmailDOTcom

Thanks! Yeah, from the snippet of article in the previous post, it sounded like they were making current US military swords for the G.I.s. Still, we know they were selling the souvenir, so it would help if we found some sort of mention of it.

Good catch John! I've added a correction on my post above.

I'm curious if anyone knows who was making dirks during WWII. @Ontario_Archaeology - Is this discussed in the Banks dirk book? Anyone else have info on the question? Update: From Nick Komiya's article, we know Suyo Shoten did: Still like to know if we know of others.

Further thoughts: After re-reading the Army documents, Tenshozan made 8, 747 souvenir swords and 1,200 "daggers" (dirks?). 1946-'55 is 10 years, that means they made 875 swords per year. That's pretty much the max capacity for a sword factory during the war. I wonder if they contracted some of that work out to other shops, like the Japanese Sword Shop. If not, and the 2 were both making them, that's a heck of a lot of souvenirs made and sold. I had not previously paid much attention to the "daggers" fact. Not following naval dirks, I have no knowledge of who had been making them during the war. Like swords, I suppose there were multiple makers? We have a photo of the Japanese Sword Shop making them in 1965 (might have been Suya Shoten), so I assumed they were making them during the war. But I wonder, now, if Tenshozan was making dirks during the war too. Edit: I had my head on backwards, there. The wartime production was easily 500-800 per MONTH per shop. For example, the Type 95 production was around 15,000 per month, total, and SMR was putting out 6,000 per year. Don't have the figures on memory for officer production.

We need to work on this some more. The article you might be referencing is on page 2 of this thread : Posted by @jeep44, but it's dated 1955. Japan was allowed to start making real sword after, what, 1950? Doug Price - if you are reading this, can we get the full article? I'd like to know if they are referring to the souvenir or are they talking about the shop making real swords again. We know from a couple sources that soldiers were, in fact, buying the souvenir from the Japanese Sword Shop, in addition to the Army PX. If the shop were making them, along with Tenshozan, it might explain the blades we see without the Toyokawa anchor stamp. When Doug posted that originally, I missed the discussion that the shop was again making swords. I had assumed they were getting the souvenirs wholesale from Tenshozan and selling them retail to G.I.s. But after Malcolm's post, I now see what you are saying - the shop may have been making them, too. There is no significant variation in the fittings, so if both shops were making the souvenir, they must have, both, been getting the fittings from the same source (which could have been Japanese Sword shop?). Need more info. Like to see if the '55 article specifies.

Interesting observation, John! Keep up the good work.

That's the right idea. To add to everyone else's points - stamped numbers on habaki are almost always a sign of Chinese fakery. There are a few, very few, Chinese railway swords with numbered habaki. But add stamped habaki to Damascus steel and your already full into fakery.

Well, it's significant that there are now 2 of them, which means the pattern was intentional and not a mix-match.

I'm surprised this post had no replies. Interesting date - March 2020 - maybe everyone got distracted with the COVID outbreak! Well, for the researching guys, I'm posting the following (Bruno already knows the answers): Kanemichi, October 1944, RJT star (first star-stamped Kanemichi in my files!) From @Kiipu " 眞 = 真.道. And the Mantetsu is a Spring 1943, Koa Isshin @Bruno - I'm assuming we already have the serial number?

Tom, you nailed it there! Did the one you have come from Bill Rannow? Are these one and the same dirk? And what's the name of that book? Looks like another good reference book to have.

Like you say, they are good blades. Some of them signed and well finished, while some are mumei and crudely finished nakago. That's why I feel some were from un-used surplus at the end of the war, and the rest were made after the war to meet the PX contract. I feel strongly that the majority of the fittings were made post-war. In-hand, they are much, much lighter than WWII kaigunto, and quite new. I have seen 1 or 2 show up with fittings that appear to have been made during the war, so some of the fittings could have come from end-of-the-war surplus.

Jason, Sorry for all the bad news on this. If you're not happy, you might ask the seller for a refund. But it is, at best a 'franken-sword' as we say - bits and pieces thrown together, and at worst, a moderate attempt at a replica. Photos can play tricks that aren't there in-hand, but it looks like the temper line was made with a grinder, and there are grinder marks on the tsuba. Although the sakura details are surprisingly accurate if it's a fake. After comparing the Iida latch to several on Neil's thread, the latch looks like one posted by @Ontario_Archaeology HERE. It may not be a fake. In fact, like others already said, all the parts may be WWII legit, but piece-together. The ito is that course, purple wrapped in one direction, classic of what we see on Chinese work. I was put off by the punched-in artwork on the koiguchi, rather than the raised flower/leaf pattern on the fuchi, but you'll see the same style on the one posted by Matt. So these may be all Iida company workmanship. You'll notice the kanki are the same, although, maybe slightly less precise on yours. And the crosshatching is more rudimentary on yours. But that may simply be different craftsmanship from different men at the shop. I don't know. It's your sword, dude. But you've got enough from the guys to take it all back if you wish.

John, He's not listed in Sesko's book or Slough, but there were approx 400 smiths working in Japan during the war, and we often come up short finding these guys. It is possible he was new toward the end of the war and was working for the Tenshozan shop and the Toyokawa Navy Arsenal when the war ended. No, the painted numbers were assembly numbers to keep the fitted parts together during the process of making the sword. Souvenir is all they were, and all it should be called. They weren't Army or Navy, or even a combination as none of them were military equipment. It is why they were able to ship them after War Trophies were banned in 1946. They were not a military weapon and could truthfully be called "Souvenir" on the shipping documents.

John, Thanks for the addition to the files! The story of it coming back from Korea matches Chris Bowen's account of Korean war vets bringing these back. I wonder if they were cycling through Tokyo on the way back from the war, or if the Army PX had an operation in Korea?