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Everything posted by Rivkin
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All of these blades are sort of the same class, plus minus. Ok koshirae, ok shinto works. Bad photographs. Number 1 I think will be a bit more interesting in real life, number 5 is also not bad by comparison. Ishido blade is impressive, there is an issue that yes any prospective buyer will bulk at it being mumei, and occasionally you can get ishido mumei for less money. But its a fun blade, and if I had to make a choice between all of those I would definitely choose this one and bite the bullet on potential resale losses. Its a serious style which is worth studying. Tuition needs to be paid. If you want something with ok koshirae, aoi art and a few other sites could be a good place to monitor. You will get quite a few things offered in this price range. I always thought Kambun shinto is the right place to get into collecting. Its bright, has easy to appreciate aesthetics, with plenty of mid-ranking and lesser known names that did good work. One can just watch out for something that has nice, bright, consistent hada in itame and the hamon with a consistent foam of nie at its upper portion - and high chance its above average work. Lots of sunagashi, nie spreading throughout hamon will point out even better pieces. Quality assessment for this period can be pretty straightforward. Regarding resale... That's a whole different game. For example, one can definitely buy something quite interesting in this price range, but the maker will have one sentence to his name in Markus's book. Or you can buy a very bottom piece by shodai Hisamichi. There are quite a few of those. Signed, ubu, papered, everything. It will resale well, but is this fun? Important to remember - people who write guides on how to collect - usually don't. That's the way society works. You either do it, or have a title and teach it. Take any advice with lots of salt. Trust no one, and most of all yourself.
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I don't know about the policy - do we discuss things here? The nakago color is extremely uniform, the writing is not in Muromachi style.
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Katana Kurihara Chikuzen nokami NOBUHIDE
Rivkin replied to BjornLundin's topic in Auctions and Online Sales or Sellers
That's probably the very core of the issue. While do we discuss so much the generalities and so little - any specific blades. Supposedly the ones we like... How much of the current nihonto scene is social and how much is blades. Feels like 90/10. Happened in all collecting communities in the past xx years. Lots of drinking, near zero interest in arranging for rare blades to be seen. Decease that every museum board and staff member caught as well (or did it come from them? would not be surprised), rare exceptions granted. 15 years ago when I was younger, after five years of paperwork I got to see what used to be Pergamon's stuff. The door had to be kicked open, and then wonderful three weeks with pneumonia from inhaling the dust everything in site was covered with. Everyone's just too damn busy. So many titles and medals to acquire, so many meetings to attend, so many things to promote. The standards of proletarian worldview need to be satisfied. Bigelow, Stone, Compton. Bygone era. Finished. Now an advertisement for a recent American book on tsuba is a pagelong author's genealogy and personal stuff joined by a photo of a few examples, frankly suitable for a beginner. -
Katana Kurihara Chikuzen nokami NOBUHIDE
Rivkin replied to BjornLundin's topic in Auctions and Online Sales or Sellers
I don't know much about Monet, but nearly all Renoirs offered in the past 40 years were trash. Etudes, studies, his weird period of imitating artist who should not be, etc. Major galleries, minor galleries - the name carries, the substance is bad. Its easier to talk about someone like Cortes. Very consistent, repeatative, not liked by the critics, but attractive and very predictable when it comes to quality/style/size/condition. At a provincial auction - 15-40k. Christies - 40-60k. I have a gallery next door. Not the best example hangs at 100k. Its a "super-retail" price level. They also offer better works, better names, and buying those maybe makes sense - you are unlikely to find the absolute top, ready to purchase outside of super-retail places. But buying Cortes at a super-retail place is not a stellar investment. This being said, a dumpster diver who gets Cortes at 25k does not really pay 25k. He paid with the past mistakes for the education, and he still pays for the fact that he buys based on photographs and there is a chance of flaw, or he simply does not bond with the piece. So its really 30-35k. Not counting the time spent. Best in the world Durer expert hits 25-50% success rates when buying online. The rest are later prints/issues, where you could instantly loose 25-40% of resale value because of the auction fees. In most arms and armor positions, you can acquire top of the world collection never having to deal with super-retail. You just need really good understanding and decent means. Mamluks are exception, the total market is like 100 pieces altogether, so one has to bid against people with 10-20B at their disposal. Nihonto is different - because of papers. Yes, Sadamune needs to be acquired at super-retail, it needs to be TJ, and there is nothing to do about it, the chances of pulling this one out are just too small. Shizu Kaneuji - completely different game. There are really exceptional quantities of nihonto in the world. More so than any other historical blades. And papers are double edged sword. They created peculiar system where a lot of experts and dealers can't kantei. Can read papers though. On the other hand I can't, without study materials. So there is a space for dumpster diving, not as wide as with continental chokuto for example, but it does exist. Being a dumpster diver you get to brag about things you pulled, skipping the part where you had to take 50% price cut after seeing the item in hand. No, 16K Kaneuji is actually more than that, considering the fails and education investment, but if one can kantei, can see quality and is willing to put in the hours, its above what one would find on average on display at a gallery. Does not mean he is willing to invest more time in having it polished/sayagakied/Juyoed etc. Frankly, what's fun in that process compared to finding cool stuff. Plus you need to learn the whole different set of skills, like arcane secret nagasa formulas for what makes a slam dunk TJ. And somehow learn to tolerate the process of interaction with religiously arrogant folk that forms the bones of nihonto marketing/fixing-upping. Still does not mean owning such blade is a crime, or there is anything horrible about this price segment. Again, you can buy something at 15mil and then have a whole bunch of issues reselling it, or you can have the same at 2mil level. Yes, in these two cases you will be selling to different kinds of collectors. -
Katana Kurihara Chikuzen nokami NOBUHIDE
Rivkin replied to BjornLundin's topic in Auctions and Online Sales or Sellers
I am sorry, my mind always slips after the second paragraph. We proletarians are like that. There are however couple of things I personally dislike. One of them is - generalities. One example - If I can't kantei the school, I don't comment on the blade. So I cringe when instead someone asks about a blade on ebay and gets "ebay is full of scammers". Its a generalization. Sort of true, but sort of irrelevant when a very particular blade is being presented. Can easily cross into slander when the subject is actually a reasonably honest offer. 1-3mil territory being the "danger zone" is one of such generalities. Its a natural price range for myriad of things - H Kaneuji probably starts at 1.2 and goes comfortably into 2.5, H Ichimonji katana of any school starts at 2, H Aoe, H Ayanokoji can be anywhere around 1,2,3. There are tons of Juyo that start at 2 million - most Yamato schools, including Yamato Shizu today start at 2. A lot of upper grade names, but shortened to wakizashi start at 1.6-2 with H (Saburo Kunimune), or 2.5m at Juyo, especially if they are from 20X shinsas. Such items are sold and bought every year. Is it particularly hard to resell those? Someone who actually collects/deals in this price range could be a reference point, but I can't say I noticed any particularly tragic issues this far. Can you get burned, i.e. buy something priced well above its resale value? You can get that at absolutely any level of prices. Can easily happen at 0.7,1.5 or 7 or 15 mil. Each case, each blade has to be considered individually rather than painted over with broad strokes. I was personally burned at one time or another at every price level I ever tried. As a result, there are some practices (like polishing) that I try to refrain from, but those usually involve actually cheaper to acquire but intrinsically higher "pure risk" items. Otherwise, its a tuition everyone needs to pay, hopefully not too often. One has to also add that different sellers/collectors/dealers also operate at intrinsically different price level and with a different clientelle. So what falls into supposedly "danger zone" for me, same Ichimonji katana will sit at Mr. Saito's shop with the same papers at 3-6mln yen. Well, at least it gets out of this menacing "danger zone". There is nothing unfair here - Mr. Saito has certain level of expenses, advertisement, appearances and service that come with the item. The problem - if Mr. Saito starts arguing that shops selling blades at 2mln yen are well, "in the killing zone". -
Preparing for San Francisco Token Kai
Rivkin replied to Kaigunto230's topic in General Nihonto Related Discussion
You obviously have more experience with it, but I always add firearm to the guncase. It will be hand inspected in any case, with a firearm at least it will at least certainly will be hand carried and issued to me in exchange of showing ID, versus standing at the luggage point and wondering - did it make to general luggage, or somebody said "or those are dangerous weapons" and did send to special handling. -
Preparing for San Francisco Token Kai
Rivkin replied to Kaigunto230's topic in General Nihonto Related Discussion
Would not count on this in the least. Shows = cash. People who know you sometimes take checks for major items. But coming from the airport, you will not have to dive through SF. Its pretty close and no significant activity around except for the show. -
I am sorry to be overly critical - this photograph is both confusing and unhelpful. Boshi is not seen. Sugata is distorted. By itself this can create a false perception. It would be difficult to estimate sword's position in Nanbokucho without knowing sugata, and there is no photograph here showing it. I have no idea where did the discussion regarding whether its a stretch or not to precisely date this sword came from. From this photograph - there is no way to know, but it does not have Oei traits. This being said, with Bizen one needs/can be very specific, since different groups (Kanemitsu's students, Kozori, Omiya, Soden, three Mitsu) all had specific period-dependent shape preferences. To me this looks like 1360 or so for Omiya, but again - without clear image of the sugata its a guess. From other photographs, it appears a classic high grade Omiya blade. Lots of sunagashi, the shape of hamon is the one they liked. There is even utsuri, which Omiya sometimes misses, but when they have it tends to be wide with poorly defined upper bound. One can say that antai is seen, utsuri is subdued, but I am not good with this terminology.
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Preparing for San Francisco Token Kai
Rivkin replied to Kaigunto230's topic in General Nihonto Related Discussion
My personal take is SF show stands a bit aside from Chicago and Florida ones. I had good luck picking quality unsigned fittings - you can still discover quite a few mainline+ Goto pieces in the US (same and more in Japan), but the blades can be (very) challenging. Its the only US show that has Japanese dealers, plus upper grade US dealers. Consequences - the room gets vacuumed pretty fast, what is not vacuumed people don't want to sell until it papers, and Juyo blades tend to be priced at upper Tokyo retail level, because that's what Mr. Saito has on them. But between 3 and 20k there is some decent selection and one can buy a good blade at a substantially below retail price. Haggle a bit. Bring cash. Chicago and Orlando are more about fishing in murky waters. -
Possible Bizen Yoshii school blade
Rivkin replied to Utopianarian's topic in General Nihonto Related Discussion
Not a specialist, but I personally would be very sceptical on Yoshii. Like most Bizen, Yoshii likes groupings of two, here we see clearly periodicity of three gunome-togari-choji-whatever you call them. That's Mino trait. Muromachi Yoshii, rare as it is, can have rough hada like here, but one would still hope for utsuri, and also rough hada examples would see some of this roughness going into hamon as well, you would see some nie patches etc. Earlier hada would have stronger itame flavor. The polish gives off non-traditional vibe. I personally think this is towards the end of Muromachi, something provincial like Wakasa, I don't know if one can be absolutely precise. -
Is this a good time to sell collections?
Rivkin replied to Peter Bleed's topic in General Nihonto Related Discussion
Very private opinions. On scythian gold: the posts and thickening of plate on items shown would make me abstain from any purchase of the kind. The richest people in Ukraine, i.e. the country where all Scythian artifacts were "mined" in the past three decades tend not to own a single all original and fully mounted akinakes. There are a few of those in really old collections, but that's about all one can find in private hands. Had opportunity to buy just a scabbard from one of those 15 years ago and regret not jumping on it. The fakes are numerous, and mostly smaller items, and usually of quite poor/obvious quality. On Masamune - TH Masamune basically means it was submitted, at which point it got Juyo Kaneuji or, more likely, worse name. Otherwise it would have Juyo papers attached at the minimum. More prominent Masamune collectors tend to argue that Masamune below TJ are problematic and probably not worth having. I handled quite a few in my hands and was NOT impressed as a rule. Many/Most museum examples do not have NBTHK attributions, but are considered "valid" of sorts, some with ministry's papers, some without. It is the most contentious/erroneous attribution in the history of nihonto and best dealt with extreme care. You want the first grade Soshu work? Buy good Sadamune tanto (tachi can be iffy). Buy good Go tachi. Norishige. The attribution in 99% of cases will not change. The valuation will not disappear. Signed ubu Sanjo Munechika is RARE. Anything that is attributed at will, in accordance to vaguely stated criteria - not really. Will never match ubu-signed-early-rare type of thing. I never understood the extreme reverence for the early papers like Honami Kochu. Of all Honami, his work was extremely often faked even in Edo period, sometimes with great skill, indistinguishable today from the originals. He was responsible for very many Masamune attributions to blades which might or might not be such. He is loved by the dealers since he produced a lot of attributions overall, the first Honami to do so. Not always spot on, but often is, very many involving early good blades. On selling collections right now - decent time. Strong inflation expectations with modest expectation that the economy will yet continue to grow. A year ago was a rush on some items, things are more calm right now, but solid demand. Aoe Art prices have one interesting consequence - for a lot of people they act as price guide. Which means you are arguing today sword is worth the same as 20 years ago. That's how many percentage points cut compared to inflation and stock market? Anyone who sells "masterpieces" and says its a great investment should probably give examples of people buying a masterpiece from him, fully papered, and selling then for more. Otherwise one is welcome to look at the prices of Compton auction. Great blades. Quite a few were re-sold in the past decade for a fraction of what they were sold at the auction, never mind the decades that passed. Antique market certainly has periods when its profitable, but those are often off-set by the decades when prices sort of stand in place. I personally will admit not being able to make money beyond certain level. I make money far more often than loose on dumpster diving (no papers is the best by far, second is modern papers to some attributions that appear weak against the blade, third is green). Buying at Tokyo Retail, worse off - from dealers who buy at Tokyo Retail prices. That's 30-50% loss of resale potential the moment you get it out the door. In good market, you might gain it back with appreciation in maybe 6-7 years, but unless you repaper to higher level.... -
Yes - you type the correct guess in google and the blade is right there.
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Is this a good time to sell collections?
Rivkin replied to Peter Bleed's topic in General Nihonto Related Discussion
Seriously, owned plenty of those. In a reasonably good case today it gets papers to something like Shizu Kaneuji... 12-17k. In a bad case - worth nothing. H, TH Masamune - starts with 60k Juyo Masamune - 400+. Sky's the limit but heavily depends on quality, who owned etc. They are just not that awfully rare, compared to say quality original Scythian gold mounts, which you see once or twice a lifetime. -
I have/had a few Bungo wakizashi datable 1580-1620 with o-kissaki and active hamon. Not all of them were not fast enough adopting suguha I think, though I might be wrong. But same goes for other remote schools - there are Kaga waki for example which are 1620 but have active hamon. Or it could be argued that Kunitsuna worked as early as 1580. I don't think there is any chance here of Kamakura, the issue is this a real Bungo smith from late Muromachi/early shinto or its fake? I believe its a real smith. They used Bungo Yukuhira calling now and then.
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Is this a good time to sell collections?
Rivkin replied to Peter Bleed's topic in General Nihonto Related Discussion
My dai hard belief - once you don't actively collect, sell everything above what you really like to have. Zero evidence nihonto ever managed to beat stock market. At any level. All discussions about it being good investment long term are dealer speak. -
It feels like pretty authentic Kunitsuna 国綱 circa 1620, matches work. While there is the Bungo Yukihira, this one is not very common shinto Bungo smith.
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Second that! The rest of swords, sorry to say, not that impressive at the first glance.
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Tapering is very characteristic, but I can't help myself but make a personal punt. I remember sometime ago someone stating that third generation Tadayoshi is generally accepted as superior to the first. At the moment I thought the statement to be unusual. Unless that someone owns something from the third generation.
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Very interesting and unorthodox blade.
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Katana Kurihara Chikuzen nokami NOBUHIDE
Rivkin replied to BjornLundin's topic in Auctions and Online Sales or Sellers
The ides comes from a dealer who has a nickname "one way ticket". -
Can be Nobukuni, though very many accept his Soshu peak as somewhat later. I am not sure about Sa school, I thought their mokume is very distinctively smaller in size and isolated, you have like a pack of mokume between really fine itame. Maybe others can correct me on this one.
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Wow, these pictures show quite a lot of ji nie. I would guess something like the first generation Uda Tomotsugu.
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I would say my opinion, which has a high chance of coming up wrong: a) Really o-kissaki. Surprisingly uncommon choice historically, which boxes it to either 1355-1395 or 1570-1620 (very few makers) or shinshinto. b) Matsukawa-class hada. Pretty obvious which school was being copied. b) High contrast well forged hada but hamon is very smudged and does not show standing out nie or even well grouped ko nie. It barely shows anything when looking from up down. Also the mokume has very high contrast but not so much ji nie. It does not have the nie substructure one typically sees on early Etchu work. So its someone who mixed up the steels in mokume, hardened in nie and the creation literally blew up into his face. Now he tempers in nioi, maybe allowing for ara nie in couple of areas. There were some Norishige imitators in Nambokucho period who came close, Yamamura Masanobu - would have strong nie in hamon. One would see more choji-gunome in Naotsuna's school, more sunagashi in Nobukuni. Sanekage, Tametsugu - strongly nie based hamon. Uda Kunifusa - possible. He also typically makes very Yamato-like hamon without much gunome or togari, like here. So my third choice would be him. He is seldom found with o-kissaki and hamon has strong visible "belts". Either tired/did not photograph well or its not Uda. There were also good Norishige reenactors in Momoyama-Kanei and even Kambun period (Noritoshi), but I don't remember any of them doing such long kissaki. Some are a bit similar to this style though. Then, in shinshinto mixed up steel and tempering to pure nioi was a trademark of the entire Norishige rediscovery movement, though they often referenced Go rather than Norishige per se. Ikkansai Yoshihiro was likely style's founder, than it went into Naotane's remote lineage through quite a few of his "grandstudents".
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High resolution version changes a lot for me... Shinshinto, Ikkansai Yoshihiro or someone close to him, like Naotane's lineage Naotsugu.
