Rivkin

Its an extremely tough question that sort of does not have a good answer. There are some swords in major collections which were polished the last time during the early Edo period; they do not show pristine early Edo level polish, one can say they are completely out of polish. Sciense-wise it can come down to question of how stable is a grain of martensite in a configuration where it sort of physically "sticks out of the surface". Yet stability of martensite, probability of phase transition and thus ability to retain structure versus time is a highly arcane subject; In fact everything that comes down to real sciense of steel is an arcane subject, in part since its notoriously resistant to first principles modeling and its more or less clear we are talking about centuries in the least, i.e. beyond the practical lifetime of what is sold today. There were even some (nonsense) analytical estimates that predicted that martensite and thus evidence of heat treatment actually disappears in 1000 years. Kirill R.

There is always an element of impropriety for me to comment on other's offerings, because occasionally I sell myself so there is conflict of interest, but personally I don't find either of the three exciting. Sengaku period did saw a lot of cross-breeding in terms of style, but still this Masaie looks a little bit more like generic early shinto than typical Masaie. Its not a great signature, so not a lot of reason to fake, and maybe there was even shinto Masaie, something to check, but sue-Mihara typically does have strong hada, and still tends to do hamon in Yamashiro style. Most of purchases today go through the internet, so ebay, stores etc. are sort of fine, with caution. Kirill R.

No, there is not. There are no records I am aware of, and thus arrogantly assume they are either deviant or non-existent, that clearly demonstrate such concern among the documented, major historical collections, and such things as taking out a precious tanto from the early Soshu master or even a major Bizen Ichimonji blade and cutting someone with it simply to keep up its spirit belongs to the world of manga and various O-sensei. Nobody was taking blades out of Shosoin in the mid-Muromachi to keep them alive a bit longer, or else they suffocate. The cutting was sometimes conducted with major names, but for the reasons of testing rather than saving a blade. There is a Mongol-Manchurian originating tradition to sacrifice people to the banner, likely similarly originating traditions to eat enemy's liver, display heads and so on. This being said, an average Bungo blade or something of similar kind will do the job of cutting quite well enough and with no serious risk to the heritage. Kirill R.

Thanks! I had very vague recollection concerning mons being engraved, but sort of dismissed it... Went through some books and indeed saw a number of higher end blades signed by mon - in all cases the signature was so worn out it probably dates to Momoyama or such. Long old tachi blades. Kirill R.

The object in question sort of wants to pass as Yasutsugu... I doubt the intent of engraving the mon was even to show it belonged to Tokugawa. I might be wrong and hope to be corrected in this case, but I did not see (apart obviously from very many Yasutsugu) swords in Tokugawa (either Mito or Owari) collections with mon engraved on nakago to demonstrate ownership. Its not really Japanese tradition to do so. Papers, signatures on hako are places where the ownership is often stated, sometimes one gets to see signatures chiseled on nakago saying this is owned by such and such, but engraving mon is just not the thing. Habaki can have mon. Hako can have mons. Mon on nakago typically means a shinto smith who was given the right to engrave such mon. Kirill R.

Very personal opinion - despite sugata matching severely cut down old sword, the rough broad features of hada to me suggest Muromachi. It also does not have nie that would truly stand out it seems. Sengaku Satsuma Naminohira would be my likely erroneous guess. Kirill R.

My problem with it is that for pre-1500 blade the curvatue is too uniform and shallow. It would make sense were it o-suriage, but does not look right for the ubu blade. If this is the case, its probably does not matter that much which Nagamitsu, as long as its not gimei... There are not really any famous nijimei examples coming to my head when thinking about those times. Personal and erroneous opinion, Kirill R.

Stupid question - did someone cut the hi so much below kissaki in Nambokucho period? Ok, got resolved - no the most common position, but can be encountered. Kirill R.

Very personal and erroneous: The style overall is Yamato, probably someone influenced by Tegai subschool. The execution looks a lot like Owari Masatsune. Date-wise probably late 1700s, they were quite active in the period. They can be quite decent, though the hada here is not standing out as prominently as on some of their work (well they also tend to have ware...). I would take much better pictures of the piece. It can be original, old work, just recently shortened, though by present photos to be Masatsune is more likely. Kirill R.

Wow, this kind of nakago signature I guess is quite rare. Ishido school or someone related from shinshinto? Is boshi in suguha? Kirill R.

Very personal take: Nice example of how post-mid-sengaku (quite prominent already with some Mino Kanefusa and Ujifusa?) and especially shinto [probably Shinto in this case?] to shintshinto hamon of decent quality looks like - a foam of nie on top, with very much varied crystal size, over relatively dense and uniform, wide structure below. The hada appears to be tight itame with quite some ji nie. It might be not a bad sword. Brilliant white in hada is ji nie. In this picture the bluish-dark in ha is nie when its a separate crystal. White is from hadori, a polishing technique to accent hamon, especially its nie. Kirill R.

I think it depends on what is defined as meito. The ones published in "Meibutsu" - no. Then there is a class of swords which are supposed to be identified as named swords from classic Japanese literature works of Heian-Nambokucho periods. Some of those are in Meibutsu; all have weak provenance, with clearly lossed verifiable transmission sometime between mid-Nambokucho to 1510 or so. Still they belonged to important Edo collections and are accepted as original Heian or Kamakura period swords, at least "in public". The answer here is also probably no. Then there are swords with sayagaki, usually from Meiji-Taisho period that say that this sword was in pocession of x for generations, maybe dating back to y, and its called "grievous lighting" or some other name. Usually the sayagaki is done by a shop owner (who were the main experts at the time), and those examples do come up from time to time for sale anywhere. Taking in mind that cynical scholarship is absolutely not welcome in nihonto, whether with respect to American "Ashikaga Takauji's own armor" or Japan's own "Kogarasumaru", almost all of the "meito" examples are taken at face value as originals of appropriate age and exact provenance. Kirill R.

George, as much as polishing adventure sounds interesting, an honest and cynical advice is not to embark on it for an unsigned daito unless you are dead certain its Heian to Nambokucho, with maybe Oei Bizen being an exception. The prices of unsigned swords from other periods are not that great. It saves time for a dealer who sees hundreds of unpolished swords - unsigned post-Nambokucho? Financially not worth the effort. Signed - evaluate the signature and then make the decision. Simple rules which are sufficient to function reasonably well in this business. Plus the chances that the polish will not reveal new problems is not that great. Finally, the chance that it will come out as a great sword - very small. Its better to bite the bullet and buy a really attractive sword in polish where you can see a lot of things. Kirill R.

There is some "water" in the description, like being set aside for a high ranking samurai etc., but overall its an interesting blade. Most Bungo come from post 1520 Muromachi, early shinto, and those tend to be not particularly stellar mass produced items. Taira Nagamori is an earlier name, and generally speaking few bad swords were made until 1500. At the time, there were plenty of old swords being offered for sale at lowest prices possible and exceptionally few swords made overall. This style of horimono was quite popular at the time, the steel looks koto, hamon is sort of consistent with Taira Nagamori (they did not have a truly distinguished style at the time, but this kind of Bizen-imitation is one of possibilities). I am a little bit puzzled by o-kissaki, which would be more at home at earlier or substantially later times, but these provincial schools sometimes felt out of bound with more general trends. So the attribution does not look too suspicious. It should not be a very expensive sword and probably most people would not bother with repapering. Most likely erroneous and personal opinion, Kirill R.

Ooook. There is another hint - first one is sai-jo-saku. Second one I think is jo-jo-saku, but need to check. Kirill R.

Yes, it was all pretty much surprisingly in the same area. The guesses from people who've seen it in life were Sue Soshu (club were I am not welcome). Go Yoshihiro (a person who knows Soshu quite well). What surprises me also is that in Bizen kantei with two blades people seem to be cautious. And I thought Bizen can be more straightforward than Soshu. Kirill R.

George, I am sorry but the pictures leave too much to imagination, so its sort of wild guess. Some of the features make me feel its no earlier than mid Momoyama, and possibly substantially later. Hamon has a streak of rather large nie on top, but rather wide and featureless below, something we don't often see on truly old koto pieces. Without having the sword in hand its even wilder guess, but I would pass on polishing. The market is skewed in such a way that with post-1450 blades even if it papers Naotane it gives you a modest profit over the polishing costs, but 95% of the rest is a pure loss. Kirill R.

As per the trend of the last x American shows there were a few great deals in tosogu and non-Japanese items, but probably only five or so good swords in the room, none of them easily obtainable. There was I assume Fred Weissberg's Go Yoshihiro, nice probably Nambokucho Soshu hitatsura daito that became a waki, a tired ichimonji and a few others. Quite a few militaria grade blades, some better ones, some worse ones. There were couple of Japanese stores present. The greatest attraction to me was probably Bob Haynes and the discussion on the early Goto that followed. Kirill R.

Jean Pierre and Tom are very kind to praise my photography, thank you. To add a clue, let's say the one to whom the first blade is attributed has three daito that are Jubi. For the second maker, the number of Jubi daito is one. Kirill R.

Second blade. Different photography technique and equipment, something I no longer use. Old polish with a white "band" formed at the edge and concealing that there is quite some sunagashi activity there. Very large full size high resolution: http://www.historyswords.com/k22.jpg http://www.historyswords.com/k21.jpg

I will be honest in stating that these two blades will be offered for sale, so there is some sense of inappropriate placement here - but because of that I did take ok pictures and I think the blades themselves are actually quite interesting for kantei and even direct comparison. Both are not signed, but papered, which also can be an issue as the attributions are not 100% certain. But since there is no prize money involved, the positions are fair and at least you get see the full blades. First blade. The polish is relatively recent Japanese work, good but way too hazy for my taste (Honami?) so the overall pictures are very difficult to take. Also, while the steel color is kind of arcane subject and depends on proper lighting, but this one does have a blue tint. http://www.historyswords.com/k1.jpg http://www.historyswords.com/k2.jpg http://www.historyswords.com/k3.jpg http://www.historyswords.com/k4.jpg

My apologies, nothing really deep here - towards #15 I was already somewhat tired; despite so many good Rai-related blades, due to my poor knowledge of this school I just decided not to dwell any deeper. Kirill R.

I thought that shinto began as way of life rather than a date. Those in the market who had "tight itame, say goodbuy to ware" were considered shinto, while their neighbors who had "bright mokume o-hada with nagare and everything included" were still koto. Kirill R.

Chris, without much pretense of expertise or looking into Ujinobu's dates: if it does not have fumbari, its not straitish, the curvature is sort of uniform its typically the early-earliest shinto or maybe something from the 18th century, but the latter are very uncommon. And this one does look like late Momoyama sugata. Kirill R.

Well, without dragging the question for too long: Its Jirotaro Naokatsu. "The best blade that Naokatsu made", as some not too objective people commented. My own guess would have been Kiyomaro or Kiyondo. Kirill R.