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GREAT EBAY TANTO.

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paulb Grand Master

paulb

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George's collection went to auction recently, there was a link to that auction posted here. George was a well known character within the sword world over the past 30 or 40 years. He accumulated quite a collection of swords of varying quality. I understand He never had any of them authenticated through shinsa, believing they were of such quality the authorities concerned would not let the blads leave Japan once there.

I think in reality he had a few good pieces and very many which weren't. The ones that sold at auction a few weeks ago were not of particularly high quality. I assume the one on Ebay either didnt sell at the original auction or is being sold on. The price looks very high for what it is.

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Brian

Brian

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The fittings are quite "cute" and I can see how they would appeal..as they were made during the Meiji period to do exactly that.

However you shouldn't judge the whole package based on the fittings, as they are easily replaceable. In this case, I don't think the blade is "all that"

Probably intended as a ko-wakizashi due to the shinogi zukuri style (unusual in tanto) it has a clumsy shape, even suggesting it might have been the front of a broken katana. If not..probably shin-shinto...I don't think a shinto.

Items like this are a great learning tool, as the fittings catch the eye, and then you have to start looking closely at the rest to see it bears up under scrutiny. If paying that price, you would at least want it in good polish to see the hamon, hataraki and hada clearly.

The origami it comes with is worth nothing more than an opinion on this forum by any of the more advanced collectors.

 

Brian

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Baka Gaijin Grand Master

Baka Gaijin

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Morning all,

 

Mark's comment:

Not many Elephants in Japan.
got me thinking.

 

Here's someone you would more likely expect to encounter close to the Ganges:

 

Kankiten 歓喜天 or Daishō Kangiten 大聖歓喜天

 

http://www.onmarkproductions.com/html/k ... tenbu.html

 

The Hindu god Ganesh was brought into the Tendai and Shingon rituals of esoteric Buddhism.

 

Cheers

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Lee Bray Experienced

Lee Bray

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Not sure even Neil Armstrong would want to make that step.

You want to avoid making any judgement of the blade,especially age, from what you see of the fittings.

High quality fittings may suggest a good blade but not necessarily.

 

This saya may not have been made for the sword, it just happens to fit, so what you can learn from that?

(not saying that's the case, just an example)

 

Assessing this blade to Heian period because there's an elephant on the saya is a quick road to ruin.

Learn the blade.

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bmoore1322 Proficient

bmoore1322

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@ Lee, I wasn't saying that, I was trying to ask, would the elephant being on there, be from that time period, sorry for any confusion on my part.

 

The tanto comes from a well known collectors collection, with paperwork to prove it.

 

I'm not into tantos, nothing wrong with them, I just really like the aspects of this one.

 

Brian

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Brian

Brian

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Brian

There are no papers with this sword. The ones mentioned are a guess by the collector himself. It's not like you can appraise your own collection and then consider it having been evaluated. As mentioned, this collector was well known, but also a little generous with his own evaluations. So consider it unpapered. The fittings are entirely unrelated to the blade inside in most cases with Nihonto.

There is little doubt that the fittings are late..probably 1800's at best. That is one thing that is almost certain.

 

Brian

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bmoore1322 Proficient

bmoore1322

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Okay, I see what you mean, but if the blade does not belong to the tsuka, then how was they able to match the pin hols up perfectly.

 

Everything on it matches up perfectly to it, the Tsuba pairs up perfectly with the saya, where they both meet / close as the fittings do match each other.

 

Brian

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paulb Grand Master

paulb

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what Brian meant was that the fittings are not necessarily original to the blade, i.e. made at the same time the blade was. they were made specifically for the sword but at a much later time. This is not uncommon blades can outlast many sets of fittings, also fashions changed some people often had new koshirae made for their favourite swords.

When the above is said what is here is an unauthenticated blade in very late flashy mounts which appears to have sold to a single bidder for a high price.

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Brian

Brian

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Always think of koshirae (fittings) as like clothes and fashion. As times, fashion, laws and circumstances changed, people would kit out their sword with a whole new set of fittings made to fit that blade. They are seldom the original fittings from when the sword was made, unless the sword is a very late production item. A sword could go through life with many different fittings over the years.

That is why it is so important to judge the blade independantly and ignore the fittings as a separate issue altogether.

 

Brian

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Lindus Mentor

Lindus

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Always think of koshirae (fittings) as like clothes and fashion. As times, fashion, laws and circumstances changed, people would kit out their sword with a whole new set of fittings made to fit that blade. They are seldom the original fittings from when the sword was made, unless the sword is a very late production item. A sword could go through life with many different fittings over the years.

That is why it is so important to judge the blade independantly and ignore the fittings as a separate issue altogether.

 

Brian

 

My old teacher Dr Turk , had a nice Tanto with a winter scene Kinko Tsuba,it also had three other indentical in shape and signed by the same man with the other three seasons shown. Suppose that like long swords the elite would have mounts made for different occasions?.

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paulb Grand Master

paulb

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Hi Roy,

I think Daimyo certainly had "seasonal" koishirae. I remeber reading in the A.Z. Freeman catalogue about a koshirae being put together in the style uesd "by a Samurai visitng his Lord in Autumn" which I think supports your view.

BTW Re: the naginata you mentioned in the other post, if it's the one I am thinking of it still resides in the UK and has high level papers. Unfortunately not with me :cry:

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estcrh Veteran

estcrh

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Huhhhhhh?????? Seems a bit overpriced to me. :doubt: mark G
Mark..a bit?? You are to kind, I can see NOTHING about the blade or koshirae that would justify this price. I see great swords that have trouble being sold on this forum that blow this sword away, a papered nagamaki in koshirae sold for less recently on ebay, how insane.
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Marius Grand Master

Marius

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Brian,

 

patience, please. Allow people to be a bit sarcastic. No offense intended here, just some friendly joking. Underlying message is: go, look at great swords and great koshirae and soon you will stop looking at stuff posted on eBay.

 

I have a newbie collector friend who does the same. I keep telling him "how can you learn what is great by looking at all that crap", but he keeps on doing it. He is taking up my time asking me for opinion on some crap tsuba and swords he has found on eBay. A pointless exercise. I get irritated because he does not get the message. You seem to behave in a similar manner.

 

This wakizashi you have found is crap, and so is its koshirae. Both are genuine, but crap. You may like them, but most people here will not find anything interesting in them.

 

That is all, I guess.

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Stegel Proficient

Stegel

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The way i see it, Japan is a part of Asia, so they would have contact/influence from others around them, hence tigers, lions, elephants etc. I don't think the elephant mounts are made for tourists, they aren't exactly my cup to tea but i don't think they are crap, just an interesting fashion trend (which may have had religious influences).

I'm no expert on Koshirae, but hey thats my 2 cents worth!

 

Now i found this for your viewing pleasure!

Yes it is for sale :D

 

Ernst

 

P.S No its not mine :glee:

post-3094-14196837154073_thumb.jpg

post-3094-14196837156977_thumb.jpg

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