pilot's sword on sling???

[Peter Bleed]

Dear Friends,

Yesterday I had the privilege and honor of seeing a group of swords that have been in storage – safe storage – since 1946. I described this experience on the forum yesterday. There is no question that these swords are original, that they came from southern China/Taiwan, and that they are “as found”. There is no post-War/Gun Show modification. This is Japanese military gear.

Included in the group was a sword I would like to ask this august list about. It might be a “Pilot’s sword”. It is a signed shinto wakizashi in bukezukuri mounts with a nice leather boot. The blade measures about 20”. The tsuka was solidly wrapped without menuki.

What I think is worth presenting to this forum is the fact that this sword was fitted not with a hanger that could attach it to a belt, but with nicely made “sling.” It appears that this sword was somehow made to be hung from the user’s shoulder. I have never seen a rig like this and I wonder if anyone else might have.

Peter

[george trotter]

Hi Peter,

Back in 1976 I was working in Bougainville Island in Papua New-Guinea (just a few islands up from Guadalcanal). The Japanese had a very large presence here in WWII and were attacked first by the US and then by we Australians. A friend of mine who was there during the war (a behind-the-lines guy) ambushed a Japanese patrol walking single-file along a jungle track and afterwards when searching for documents, when he rolled the first body over it was an officer with a sword strapped to his back. He showed it it me and it was mounted about identical to yours...as follows. Buke-zukuri mounts of excellent quality, blade by ni-dai Kawauchi no Kami Kunisuke (or gimei) and the saya had the usual kurikata but fitted with the army suspension ring and the leather saya cover had a "D" ring sewn onto the thicker leather at the bottom end. This and the ring had a leather thong? (don't remember a buckle) stretched between them which was then slung over the shoulder like a rifle, the tsuka easily reachable if needed, but leaving the hands free...in fact if I remember correctly, my guy said he was carrying a rifle and didn't look like an officer at all.

Hope this helps.

[Ted Tenold]

Hi Peter,

 

Though I haven't personally seen such a rig, it's a very interesting variation. I doubt it would be practical for a pilot as slinging across the back where parachute harness and discomfort during flight. No pilot (well, except maybe Kamikaze) would want anything interfering with chute gear. The sling also seems dangerous in a cockpit filled with crucial levers, pedals, control cables, pulleys, etc. especially when one considers combat maneuvering.

 

George's story about it being slung across the back of a jungle foot soldier seems much more practical. The whole thing being covered in leather not only keeps the glare away in darkness, (perhaps another reason for lack of menuki?) but also prevents the clink clank of metal fittings while on patrol. Across the back also prevents it from snagging on growth as it would at the waist.

 

Just thoughts....

 

Quite interesting piece though!

[Daniel]

If I remember correctly I've seen a photo of either NLF or Army soldiers, can't remember wich in a MOUT combat situation who carried their swords this way. Best Regards and Merry Christmas to all

[bmlusk1911]

I'm not surprised an officer would choose to carry a rifle....Most of the officers I know from Iraq and Afghanistan carried one, and pitched a fit if they weren't issued one. Only time I had just a pistol was on a Camp or FOB.

 

I remember the old adage, a pistol is only there to fight your way back to the rifle you shouldn't have dropped in the first place.

 

After a couple Toyama Ryu classes, I kept thinking how the Saya could get in the way when worn traditionally at the left side. I heard there were some schools of Samurai which tossed the Saya aside to be picked up after the battle, since it was essentially a "disposable" or easily replaced item and not critical to the actual Katana.

 

I can see how keeping it out of the way during jungle or MOUT would be handy, but was there any Samurai traditions of wearing the Katana on the back, or was this an innovation which came about during WWII?

[george trotter]

You guys have prompted me to check my notes (actually a pile of scrps of paper with "sword stuff" written on them)...I remember now seeing a second one of these "back mountings swords". About 1980 a large house here had an auction and there were two swords...one a Type 98 mounted wakizashi...even the Type 98 saya was short. Also, another of these swords as per thread...it also was in leather covered Buke-zukuri mounts with the gunto suspension ring and "D" ring sewn on to bottom end of saya cover. Both swords were in terrible condition so I didn't bother any further.

So, this make three? noted.

Regards,

[bmlusk1911]

I know this would probably work with Wakizashi length swords, but I would think a Katana would be too long to draw from the back....

[Toryu2020]

Swords can easily be drawn when worn over the back if you know how it is to be done. Notô is a trick as well unless you know what you're doin...

-t

[sanjuro]

There is in fact a long tradition of swords being worn across the back by samurai on campaign, when in rough country, on lengthy marches and also on horseback etc. Nodachi were carried this way on horseback as far back as the nanbokucho and before. There isnt really much that is new in the variety of ways swords were carried, particularly since a samurai often carried more than one sword. A katana is not difficult to draw from this position (Hilt over right shoulder) as Thomas has observed. Drawing this way actually provides a very powerful single handed downward cut. Noto is a bit tricky though. Even a standard mounted katana with sageo and kurikata can be rigged to be worn this way very easily. Think of a rank of men in close order all wearing swords...... What would be the most comfortable and least troublesome way of carrying the sword over any distance?

[Brian]

Yes, but the question here is: was this a regulation method of carry, or something just rigged up by one officer for convenience?

Would they have been allowed to make such changes if desired? This was a professional job, you can see someone rigged it up who was familiar with Gunto modifications such as combat covers etc. Taking an earlier wakizashi to war..not unusual. I have seen many in Gunto mounts, and also civilian mounts. I guess this was done in the field for convenience. Going through the jungle with a sword hanging from your waist must have been frustrating.

 

Brian

[sanjuro]

Brian.

I dont doubt that throughout history such a method of carrying a sword has been utilised with or without the benefit (read that as the inconvenience/aggravation) of standing orders. After all, some of the greatest innovators known have been soldiers in the field. Our military histories are littered with soldiers who made their own decisions concerning things with far more serious ramifications than the mere official method of carrying a sword. Its called initiative I believe. :D In my experience soldiers left to their own devices usually come up with the most efficacious way of achieving the desired result, often by working their way around the technicalities of standing orders and official edicts.

[Ed Harbulak]

Look at the picture on page 69 of Fuller and Gregory's book "Japanes Military and civil Swords and Dirks" for a photo of soldiers with swords slung over their backs. I once owned a WWII era shingunto that had a ring attached to the tip end of the scabbard that only made sense if it was intended to be the lower attachement for a sling allowing the sword to be carried on the back. It probably didn't take long for an officer or NCO to figure out that it was a lot easier and less troublesome to carry the sword over his back rather than suspended from his belt. This method of carry works with a rifle so using the same method to carry a sword is rather obvious.

Ed

[Peter Bleed]

Dear Friends,

The list worked! Thank you all. After what seemed like a slow start, the forum came up with interesting - hell, excellent - information.

My suggestion that this was a pilot's sword was naive - but consistent with the "usual" explanation for short gunto. It does seem - ahhh - inconsistent with a pilot's gear. Would it go over or under the chute? I was aware of the o-dachi worn over the shoulder, but that antique usage seemed to be an accommodation to very long swords.

Ed, your reference to Fig 91 in Fuller and Gregory II is spot on. Especially in light of the fact that this sword certainly came out of China. To give a bit more detail about this sword, it is signed Omi no kami TADATSUGU (but not likely to pass shinsa, IMHO). The tsuka is plane, without menuki, but functionally solid. The tsuba is a sturdy old sukashi iron guard. The blade appears to have been polished carefully, but by someone who was not a togi. This was a cutter. It looks like a real weapon. I think it is a great example of a blade that was made for use in the time before the shin-gunto koshirae was either established or commonly available. And that would be consistent with use in China. The fact that Fig 91 shows these swords being worn by guys who might be looting a shop does not enhance its martial purity. But it certainly reflects a part of sword history.

Peter

[Stephen]

FWIW

 

I have seen at least three photos of pilots on wing with full size guntos

[george trotter]

Yes, but the question here is: was this a regulation method of carry, or something just rigged up by one officer for convenience?

 

Brian

 

I think it is just a field usage thing...done by the officer for personal preference when fighting in the jungle (or China). I don't think it can have been very common in the Pacific theatre as of all the 100s of swords brought back by Australian soldiers from here I have seen , these are the only two I have noted. I suppose it is always possible that many Australian soldiers threw away the leather saya cover on the way home as relatively few still have these on them...perhaps they were very mouldy and tatty after a year or two in the jungle as you can imagine if you've ever been there.

Regards

[runagmc]

I suppose it is always possible that many Australian soldiers threw away the leather saya cover on the way home as relatively few still have these on them...perhaps they were very mouldy and tatty after a year or two in the jungle as you can imagine if you've ever been there.

 

The funny thing is, the one Peter posted looks to be in almost new condition...

[george trotter]

Hi Adam,

yes the posted one is in excellent condition, but it is said to have been collected in China.

The two I have seen were both in the SW Pacific area jungle and one was still on Bougainville when I saw it. I am just speculating of course on whether the Aussies threw the covers away, but I must say, it is fairly rare to see leather covers on Type 98 swords brought back from here by our soldiers so they either did not have them or they are now missing...these covers are the only way to tell if the sword was fitted for back mounting, although of course it is very easy to just use a bit leather/rope to make a temporary carrying strap on an un-covered Type 98 saya, and then just throw this away when not needed. I have seen the occasional example with a bit of cord/rope tied to the suspension ring, but can't tell if this is just post-war stuff or the remains of a back-sling....

Most of the bring-back wood/lacquer type sayas still have their leather covers though.

Regards,

[Death-Ace]

Thought this would also help: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Japanese-Sword- ... 626wt_1396

 

Apparently it is (well, WAS) a holdout's sword who still evaded capture for nearly a year on Okinawa before surrendering. Apparently his conditions during that time took it's toll on the ashi/ring (and on him!). It's set up is quite similar. Could it have rotted off or the officer took it off for convenience? I'd think more of both or the latter. As stated, it would be convenient and less of a nuisance to carry it from the belt. Doesn't woodblock prints have some samurai carrying it as such?

 

Lev