jason y Posted March 9, 2011 Report Posted March 9, 2011 I sent this sword to polisher(Eric Roush) about 10weeks ago and i got it back yesterday. It is really beautifull sword, and having little problem with mei.. Soshu ju masa mune. it is right?? I don't really mind if this is Gimei or not becasue i like it very much. So what do you guy think? Quote
Grey Doffin Posted March 9, 2011 Report Posted March 9, 2011 Hi Jason, Correct, "Soshu Ju Masamune". Of course it is gimei; expected with that signature. Looks to be a nice sword; just needs a proper polish. Grey Quote
Guido Posted March 9, 2011 Report Posted March 9, 2011 ... ; just needs a proper polish. Couldn't have said it better myself. Quote
cabowen Posted March 9, 2011 Report Posted March 9, 2011 Is that hadori down the back of the blade??? Quote
sanjuro Posted March 9, 2011 Report Posted March 9, 2011 Not wishing to be a wet blanket, because heaven knows it is all too easy to be critical, but am I alone in thinking this polish hides more than it reveals and gives an utterly false impression of the hamon? :? Quote
jason y Posted March 9, 2011 Author Report Posted March 9, 2011 Could you explain more about proper polishing?? Quote
cabowen Posted March 9, 2011 Report Posted March 9, 2011 Not wishing to be a wet blanket, because heaven knows it is all too easy to be critical, but am I alone in thinking this polish hides more than it reveals and gives an utterly false impression of the hamon? :? Stated simply, the polish does not do the blade justice..... To explain in more detail Jason, here are the obvious shortcomings: 1) The hadori work is too thick and misshapen. The blade would seem to be done in either hitatsura or have extensive muneyaki. Generally, on a long blade, this would not be highlighted with hadori down the length of the blade. The one large dip along the back shown in your photos is in particular out of place. It is a clear sign to anyone familiar with proper polishing that this is the work of an amateur. 2) The hada looks frosted. This is common in the work of amateurs as well. I can not speak to the foundation work as this is not readily observable from photo. You can point the blade so that it reflects a bare round light bulb and move the blade so the image of the bulb moves up and down the blade. Watch the reflection of the bulb. It should be a circle and stay a circle as the reflected image moves down the blade. If the surface has dips and swells, which indicate a wavey and thus poorly done foundation, the bulb image will distort back and forth from a circle to an oval and back again. I am willing to bet yours will distort... A blade such as this one is very difficult to polish and really requires a trained professional to bring out the best in the blade. This is a good example of how an amateur polish can actually hide the best in a blade.... I hope this is of some help to you.... Quote
kusunokimasahige Posted March 9, 2011 Report Posted March 9, 2011 Yes, it was not polished the way it deserved imho, especially this photo made me think that the polish it has at the moment does not reveal the underlying beauty of the hamon : If it had looked like this : or this : It would have been a lot better. KM Quote
pcfarrar Posted March 9, 2011 Report Posted March 9, 2011 Could you explain more about proper polishing?? You need to go out and handle some swords in good polish and you will quickly begin to recognise why this work is so poor. Quote
Grey Doffin Posted March 9, 2011 Report Posted March 9, 2011 Jason, This is what you need to know about proper polish. Never, make that NEVER!, give a sword to a polisher unless you know he has proper training, and proper training is not reading books and watching videos; it is years of diligent study with a polisher who is himself properly trained. The larger problem with phoney baloney polishes like the one you paid for is not what the sword looks like when the work is done; it is the damage, sometimes permanent, that was done to the blade during polish. Take the sword in question, for example. Even though it is a gimei of Masamune it might well be a very good, and possibly a very valuable sword (hypothetical here; I don't know that). Is this is the case you will have to send it to a proper polisher who will remove the signature, repolish the blade, and submit it to shinsa, which would be necessary to establish value on a mu-mei sword. You will have paid for 2 polishes and what's worse, the sword will have suffered 2 polishes, one of which probably removed more of the skin steel than necessary. The most expensive polish is the one that costs the least. Grey Quote
Grey Doffin Posted March 9, 2011 Report Posted March 9, 2011 And Jason, if you have the opportunity to communicate with Mr. Roush, please tell him that I at least, and I'm sure many other members here also, wish he would find a different hobby. If he continues to polish without first obtaining a proper training, it is only a matter of time before he does serious damage to something important. Grey Quote
Brian Posted March 9, 2011 Report Posted March 9, 2011 A note to those not sure of polishers... If you are paying under $100 per inch (usually much more) and there is no waiting period, your polisher is probably not traditionally trained. Those jobs that cost $500 or less in total...probably an amateur or self taught. Yes, there may be exceptions, but you need to be realistic and know what you are getting yourself into. Granted this sword doesn't look ruined, but the comments here are valid. Not knocking any particular polisher, since this is an age-old argument. Just making people aware. Sword looks to have some nice activity in it. Brian Quote
pcfarrar Posted March 9, 2011 Report Posted March 9, 2011 Going back to the sword itself, sue-bizen looking choji hamon with crab claws and muneyaki would make Bungo Takada a distinct possibility? Quote
Bruno Posted March 9, 2011 Report Posted March 9, 2011 Grey, I asked some times ago to my togishi friend if a gimei signature should be removed or not. He said no, never touch a nakago wheter it is gimei. He added that the sword was made like this and should not be changed. Is it common to remove gimei signature? Proper trained togishi do that? Quote
jason y Posted March 9, 2011 Author Report Posted March 9, 2011 I really no idea on this sword but even if it is Gimei, i still like it so much. Thank you for all the infore!!! Quote
Carlo Giuseppe Tacchini Posted March 9, 2011 Report Posted March 9, 2011 Is it common to remove gimei signature? Proper trained togishi do that? Hi Bruno. Yes, it's possible and indeed done, patina rebuilt as well. There is a fellow forumite that owns (at least I wish he still owns) a blade with a so well restored Nakago to have been assumed Ubu by an high level Japanese expert. Quote
jason y Posted March 9, 2011 Author Report Posted March 9, 2011 Is there are anyone in US could do it? Quote
takakage Posted March 9, 2011 Report Posted March 9, 2011 Grey, I asked some times ago to my togishi friend if a gimei signature should be removed or not. He said no, never touch A french Togishi ? Quote
Bruno Posted March 9, 2011 Report Posted March 9, 2011 Yes, it's possible and indeed done, patina rebuilt as well. There is a fellow forumite that owns (at least I wish he still owns) a blade with a so well restored Nakago to have been assumed Ubu by an high level Japanese expert. Thanks Carlo. However recreate something (patina) in few days that took hundreds of years to appears still looks odd to me wheter done by a skilled expert. Of course I am nobody to tell. If possible I wish I could (probably many fellow members also! ) see before and after photos of a removed gimei. Quote
Bruno Posted March 9, 2011 Report Posted March 9, 2011 A french Togishi ? Yes yes Patrick, and a pretty good one I would say. Quote
takakage Posted March 9, 2011 Report Posted March 9, 2011 the two best, Zénon( Belgium) or Massimo (italia) ? In France, Reynold or Jean Claude ? Quote
Mark Posted March 9, 2011 Report Posted March 9, 2011 There are a few people (at least 3 i can think of) in th U.S. who i would have remove/restore a nakago Quote
drbvac Posted March 9, 2011 Report Posted March 9, 2011 I wish to thank all the more senior - well sorry, more knowledgeable members of the board for if nothing else taught me enough to look at the first post and think - why has the hadori gone all over the blade and not having anything in common with the smiths hamon? I can probably take a tooth out better than most of you folks but as in any endeavour or field hard to beat 4o years of study and experience. To the experts who so freely teach us all Quote
Grey Doffin Posted March 9, 2011 Report Posted March 9, 2011 I don't have a before but here is an after of a removed mei. This was so well done I'm not positive this is the correct side of the nakago; I can't tell. Grey Quote
Bruno Posted March 10, 2011 Report Posted March 10, 2011 That is true Grey, impossible to tell it was signed before. Amazing. Quote
Jean Posted March 10, 2011 Report Posted March 10, 2011 less pits in the metal between the two ana Quote
Grey Doffin Posted March 10, 2011 Report Posted March 10, 2011 But it's the same on the other side. Grey Quote
Bruno Posted March 10, 2011 Report Posted March 10, 2011 And what about removing stamps (showa, seki gifu etc...) on nakago, is it a nonsense? To me no need to do so as stamp is part of the sword and its history but I do like to read members opinions about that. Thanks in advance to those who will express their point of view. Quote
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