shakudo tsuba as scrap metal

[JohnTo]

I have often thought that tsuba represented a cheap art form compared to many other collectables.  Looking at those shakudo tsuba in my collection with good blue black patina I assume that these were made of shakudo with about 5% gold.  Poor quality shakudo, with little or no gold in the mix (nigurome), tends to show a lot of brown in the patina.   Comparing the price I paid for these tsuba with the current cost of gold (£122 per g) I find that, overall, the gold content is worth about 60% more.

Probably dissolving the copper in nitric acid would allow recovery of the gold, but it is not something that I am considering.

Pics of a couple of nice examples are attached.

Just a thought, John

[Spartancrest]

With the price of gold now - I am considering melting down my wedding ring! [Heck, she won't notice!]  

[Matsunoki]

I’ve got several teeth I could pull out and buy a food processor instead.

[Spartancrest]

2 hours ago, Matsunoki said:

I’ve got several teeth I could pull out and buy a food processor instead.

Thank goodness they don't make gold lips or you wouldn't be able to use a straw!  

[ROKUJURO]

19 hours ago, JohnTo said:

I have often thought that tsuba represented a cheap art form compared to many other collectables......

John,

that is absolutely true. And if we talk about gold content and today's price of it, we should also look at the making of TSUBA. Assuming you could find TSUBASHI capable of producing TSUBA in the work-quality range of your above pictured nice TSUBA, what would they charge you? 

In this context, gold remains a small factor, I think.

[Exclus1ve]

I’ve already thought about this more than once. I agree that at the present time we have very favorable conditions for purchasing tosogu.
https://nihonto.com/nakai-koshirae/
 

I’ve already cited this article as an example before - it shows very clearly that for each option, such as nanako, inlay with specific metals, additional carving - there was a substantial surcharge for every request.
Now, however, the work can cost less than the price of the metal itself, simply because demand for these items is low. But if we ask someone to recreate something comparable to the work of a great master, as Ford Hallam did, the price would really surprise us and would most likely be higher than that of an Edo-period piece.

[Curran]

3 hours ago, Exclus1ve said:

I’ve already thought about this more than once. I agree that at the present time we have very favorable conditions for purchasing tosogu.
https://nihonto.com/nakai-koshirae/
 

 

Thank you for posting that. I geeked out on reading it. I had not known Fred W. had such an article tucked away on his site.

[eternal_newbie]

16 hours ago, Curran said:

I had not known Fred W. had such an article tucked away on his site.

 

My thoughts exactly; I've been a regular visitor to that site for years and somehow missed this gem.

[kaigunair]

The nakai-koshirae is a sight to behold in person, one of many he has shared with the club...

[shakudo]

Hi all, I have purchased 3 shakudo tsuba for scrap metal- all damaged and not repaiable. None were solid- all were 4 piece construction. Consist of a core- copper or brass, shakudo outer plates and shakudo mimi- usually very skillfully lead soldered. All I purchased for destruction and reclamation I could see the start of delaminatio so no surprises! Check the edges of all shakudo tsuba as gold has always expensive and has been used sparingly. Im up to purchase any that are basket cases- Ive been able to reclaim the shakudo from mine. 

[Matsunoki]

Are you sure the material you are reclaiming is actually shakudo? 
I recently had cause to examine a few such tsuba when I stumbled across them on another thread…..and I have my doubts. There are several alloys used by the Japanese to create a shakudo effect (see Nagoya mono) and given that these tsuba are largely very cheaply made imitations of the real thing I wonder why they would use any of the most expensive alloy in their manufacture.

Even if they are shakudo, chances are that the gold content will be very low which coupled with the very thin plate then maybe the tsuba, even if in rough condition will still be worth more as tsuba than as atoms of gold?

[Brian]

I agree with Colin, and the gold content can go down very low as Ford once mentioned. Plus I don't think those are all shakudo. Especially not the first.

[shakudo]

Patina on copper or brass does not give the purple/black of shakudo. The core in mine was/is copper or a brass and all three were covered in shakudo. Metal ie gold has always been expensive and what better way to make it appear as solid shakudo- gold/ copper/ other was a lot of work- well done too- only after years has the edges been exposed where the lead solder has been attacked by the environment. Consider the effort to make 4 piece tsuba- against the solid expensive version- labour was cheap- few stiffens of rice!

I have made shakudo quite a few times and had varying success but not what I would consider as good shakudo! Ive tried 3,5 and 7 % gold but its still brown after patina. The pieces I have from the old tsuba colour very well and show the darkness straight away and with obvious age they would be better.

I have a couple of brooches I made for an exhibition in the late 80s using shakudo- my shakudo!!!- and they are still brown- oh and I am using Japanese patina! I am certain the ones I have pulled apart are shakudo. More to it than copper and gold.

Cheers

Mike