Help with a Shin-Gunto Tang

[Akitombo]

Hi,

Could I please have some help with a rusty Shin-Gunto.

Having trouble reading it.

Regards

David

[Nobody]

濃刕関住人源天秀謹作之 – Resident in Noshu Seki, Amahide respectfully made this.

皇紀二千六百年拾月日 – 2600 Imperial year (1940), 10^th month

[Akitombo]

Thank you very much

David

[Bruce Pennington]

David,

No showa stamp or other marks?

[Akitombo]

Hi Bruce,

No, not a thing.

I found that a little strange having seen other examples of his work

David

[Bruce Pennington]

Can you tell if the blade was traditionally made?  Ohmura states that they were not inspected/stamped by the Association.

[Akitombo]

Bruce,

I've been thinking the same.

It has had a hard life, is a little rusty, large bo hi, hiro-suguha , I think water rather than oil.

Two rivet holes.

Hope that helps.

David

[Bruce Pennington]

The two holes meant that it was probably mounted in RS fittings. Do you own the fittings?

[Akitombo]

Bruce,

Everything but the tsuba

David

[Bruce Pennington]

10 hours ago, Akitombo said:

Bruce,

Everything but the tsuba

David

David,

Can we get a photo of the fittings?  

 

I cannot remember where we talked of the earliest RS gunto (Type 100, Type 3, etc), but this seems pretty darn early.  The press release for the style came out in August 1940, so this one is just 2 months after.

 

@Kiipu - do you have the earliest RS/T100 on record?  Do you recall where we discussed this?

[Bruce Pennington]

I think I found it - Timeline of the Type 3 Gunto,  and it looks like Dec 1941 was the earliest known on that thread.

 

Brian, what do you think of moving this to the military forum?

[Akitombo]

Bruce, Here we go

 

[Akitombo]

And the tang

[Bruce Pennington]

Wow, what an unusual, and appealing sword you have there, David!  It's hard to say, now, if this was made originally for RS fittings or not.  The 2 ana is what made me think it, but after comparing to some other blades made for RS, I'm not sure.  The spacing of the ana isn't quite the same as the others.  Yet, why would it have been made with 2 ana otherwise?

 

Very interesting piece.

[Akitombo]

Thank you Bruce.

[george trotter]

On a Type 98 mounted blade tang being drilled 2 mekugi but only one used...I have a Sho 16 Sept dated blade by Yamagami Munetoshi of Niigata that has two holes but the Type 98 hilt is only drilled to use one mekugi hole.

I think this may just be a smith's decision to produce 2 hole tangs and leave it to the local customer/mounting shop to decide on what mount to have.

Regards...

[John C]

4 hours ago, george trotter said:

leave it to the local customer/mounting shop to decide on what mount to have.

George:

This may answer a question I have had for a while - how the ordering process for swords was carried out. So were blades produced THEN sold through shops with the customers ordering the various koshirae types or was the entire sword ordered, blade and hamon type, then produced?

 

John C.

[Brian]

There is an article somewhere where department stores etc, had dealers set up, where guys going to war could browse the blades according to their budget, and purchase one. Then they specified the mounts and I guess the sword was prepared for them.

[mecox]

@John C   how the ordering process for swords was carried out. So were blades produced THEN sold through shops with the customers ordering the various koshirae types or was the entire sword ordered, blade and hamon type, then produced?

John, as far as I can make out, all of the above.  There were many sources of blades with or without koshirae.  Basically it depended on your budget, as Brian noted,  for quality of blade/ name of maker, and / or style of koshirae, and variations and quality of fittings. These combos were of a very wide range, but many opportunities to buy the full kit off the rack.  This certainly applied to army shingunto, but also looks that navy had a parallel structure.  I think the range of gunto koshirae we see on NMB reflects all this.

[george trotter]

Yes John,

As Mal has said, it is likely every 'way' of buying a gunto was in use....I think this was possibly just a swordsmith 'thing' to make the choice of mountings easier/quicker for the buyer/sword shop who would mount it for him.

This is just 'probabilities'...none of us has found research/writings that proves how/why the hole numbers were chosen.

Regards...